Hello EDRN,
On June 18th, 2010 at 8:36 pm EDRN, left this comment.
May I ask a question? I’ve been reading here for awhile now and I wonder if you all think Casey is innocent or if you are just looking at alternatives?
==========================================================
Here’s my response:
You asked a very good question. I can’t answer for all those who contribute here but I can for myself. I’m not looking for a scapegoat. I want the truth and justice for Caylee Anthony.
Casey Anthony is charged with Murder One and is facing the ultimate sentence. I question her guilt to this particular charge. Had she been charged with felony child endangerment or felony child neglect, I would have little interest in this case. The state of Florida has gone “all in” on Casey and I believe it’s because of popular belief and sensationalism. In my opinion, this case of a missing child was not treated as such. It was never investigated as such. I think had the authorities at least entertained the idea of a kidnapping before closing in on Casey, they may have gotten a better result and possibly the truth.
This case started off much like Jon Benet Ramsey’s. Both were reported as kidnappings and when all was said and done, JonBenet’s body was in the house. When THIS was all said and done, Caylee Marie’s body was down the block. Although most feel the same about both cases, the mother did it. I have my doubts. Unlike most crimes, I don’t believe mothers who murder their children have a standard modus operandi. (MO)
By LE failing to find Caylee in August 08, a lot of forensic evidence was lost leaving the door open for speculation and that’s when I started looking at this in a different light and with an open mind.
I found Annie Downing and her interview with LE interesting. Not only did she stay a few days with Casey while she was on house arrest, she also opened the door to an incident that occurred May 24, 2008. In Annie Downing’s interview she stated that Casey always seemed to have new friends, meaning outside friends. Annie Downing also said she’d stay away for awhile but eventually come back to her “home” friends. It’s with this statement that leads me to her outside friends.
Zenaida Gonzalez or whatever her name is could possibly exist. Richard Grund states, Casey told him her new babysitter’s name is Zenaida Gonzalez. This means Casey already had this name going for her way back in March, April, or May of 2006.
Here’s the link, on page 44:
docstoc.com/docs/2810979/Casey-Anthony-Documents-Released-Nov-26-001
I don’t think Richard Grund realized the importance of this statement or he may have never said it. It means Casey just didn’t pull the name from a hat in May of 2008. This statement was a starting point for me.
I struggle with murders committed against innocent children. That being said, when you put “child murdered” and “mother” in the same sentence, I’m looking for a smoking gun, a confession, something conclusive, beyond a doubt evidence. The evidence submitted so far doesn’t satisfy me enough to hang up my coat. Casey had no reason to kill Caylee is another obstacle for me.
With the help of objective, intelligent, creative thinkers, I’m hoping we’ll get a few answers to the many questions that haunt us.
That’s what the JB Mission is about.
Thanks for asking EDRN.
The JB Mission 
OK, where is the star bar so I can vote. I’d vote multiple times if it was fair. This is an excellent summation of my own feelings and logic in this case. I agree with you 100% even though I hadn’t thought of the Annie Downing interview as one of my reasons. I have no doubt within an hour they had their sites on Casey as the guilty party and didn’t look beyond the end of their nose in this case. Any investigation they did beyond Casey was only to cover their butts so the defense couldn’t say they didn’t do this or that. But they still left a huge field of points they never bothered to look at and even stated falsely about in their report. The work emails is a very good example. I know most of them existed and the Franck mail was likely a professional spoof, quite easy for scammers to do. That is the only email that was false but Melich said all were false.
I see no evidence that Casey didn’t lover her daughter or take good care of her. I see no evidence that she drugged or abused her in any way. She had more to gain, if she chose to, through her being alive than dead. She could have easily gotten public assistance, free college tuition and nearly free housing as a single mother, if she chose. I know many people that have done that. She could have gotten child support, if the father is alive. I could go on and on but you’ve already read most of my points of interest/concern. Thanks, JB for summing this up so well.
Perfect answers. I wholeheartedly agree with both.
Thank you for answering my question. It is refreshing to hear another point of view, without mean spirited remarks attached to it. Altho I may not agree, you bring up some excellent points. I look forward to continuing to read here and who knows….you may even change my mind. Keep up the daunting, but good work.
Child abuse ending in death is the ultimate outcome of such abuse. Mothers kill their children all the time, and the reasons can be surprisingly mundane – simply because
they no longer wish to live the life they have been living, or because their boyfriend
“only wants boys”. Motive is not a factor at a murder trial, but it helps to understand
why a mother might kill her child. For many I believe not even a video of Casey killing
Caylee will suffice, but for the many of us who believe that she did in fact duct tape Caylee’s
mouth and nose, using the same duct tape brand found in her home, throwing her in the trunk of her car, causing the fetal shaped stain that appeared there and causing the foul
odor that a policeman and a nurse both identified as being from a dead body, as well
as wrapping her in a blanket from her own bed and putting her in a laundry basket
from her own home, for those many of us that know this was not done by a stranger,
we believe the case is overwhelming and justice will be served and Casey Anthony will
spend the rest of her days in prison.
Artgal,
Your theory makes for a strong case if you believe that there are no alternative answers. If you only consider what the media has reported or what has been released by LE, it becomes easy to follow the evidence to Casey. However, I tend to agree with JB in that this case and the collection of evidence by LE focused solely on Casey, and by doing so they didn’t really eliminate alternative possibilities. I feel LE is over confident in the circumstantial evidence they are relying on to indict.
In discussion of the initial charges of neglect and child endangerment, a form of abuse, this is based on the 31 days before reporting Caylee missing. Prior to that time, there was no evidence of abuse, physically or through neglect. I expect that if Caylee had exhibited signs of abuse that Cindy Anthony would be on trial for manslaughter. If you consider, as JB has speculated, that Casey didn’t show concern for Caylee’s welfare because she knew (or perhaps thought she knew) who Caylee was with, thus she wasn’t worried.
The name, Zenaida Gonzales, has been popping up since sometime in 2006. Then again Zenaida pops up, coincidently, on a guest roster at Sawgrass Apts. Perhaps the name/person is totally made up, but I think someone was keeping Caylee. I read on another blog that Casey took her full 3 months maternity leave from her job (can’t remember which job) and after she returned to work supposedly a friend kept Caylee for several months, followed by the Grunds until sometime in April 2006. Caylee would only be around 7 months old at the time. Then what happened? Holly Gagne, a friend of the A’s, states she babysat Caylee for a year…when exactly? By the way, Holly Gagne is being represented by Brad Conway for felony assault on her husband with a baseball bat.
If you consider also, that Casey probably had clothing, blankets, and dolls in her car, it probably wouldn’t be hard to imagine having a laundry bag in the car/trunk either. Anyone who had access to the car, if the car was never locked, also had access to the trunk. If the car was locked, anyone who had access to the keys could do the same. From all reports, her car seemed to be a traveling trash collection of various discards.
Concerning the duct tape…did George keep the duct tape in the utility shed that was broken into? Once the lock was breached, couldn’t anyone return and take the tape? How long did it take for them to fix the lock? Wasn’t there a story going around about the “nanny” having keys to the A’s home so she could pick up clothing or something Caylee may need?
I agree that this case is overwhelming, especially with circumstantial evidence, but there doesn’t seem to be that smoking gun, or a realistic (my opinion) motive for Casey to have harmed her daughter. In all reality, if Casey didn’t want to be a mother or care for Caylee, all she had to do was walk away. Cindy & George would have raised her child, even if they were angry with Casey.
I still have too many questions…
Thank you everyone for your insightful contributions. Proof of what I hoped, I am not alone. You guys rock! 😀
A simple question – if I may?
Who or what is the alternative?
There is physical evidence. It has not been revealed yet but even without it there is no evidence whatsoever of anyone else being involved with Casey or this child. Caylee
Anthony was in the company of her mother and was unable to leave of her own accord
being two years old. In the two years that have passed no evidence or witnesses have
ever turned up any proof a nanny existed as none did. Due to the sunshine law
most evidence that we have read and has been published are actual documents pertaining
to this case, they are not innuendo or media “facts”, therefore helping to get a clear picture of the case. I do not believe that Susan Smith, Diane Downs or many other mothers who have murdered their children had ever tried to harm the children previously before they killed them. Sociopaths are very clever and cunnning – Casey Anthony clearly is a sociopath,
the lying, stealing, and promiscuity, the superficial charm, are marked characteristics of
the disorder. We also know that she had drugged Caylee with cold medicine and we dont know what else. We dont really know WHAT she did to Caylee when she had her. Just because she didnt beat her, doesnt mean Caylee didnt suffer other abuse. When it comes
to juries, they like to assign blame – Caylee is dead and someone killed her. A juror
is not going to buy the phantom killer – thats why she will be easily convicted
Cell phone log
Notice July3rd, Casey and Cindy are obviously having a day of conversation. This is the day Cindy posts on MySpace to tell the world how Casey is such a bad person. Now, we know our beloved Cindy has a problem admitting her daughter is a bad person but on this day, she’s posting on MySpace for the whole world to see. Why?
Notice July 3rd and 4th, the night Casey gets a tattoo, Lee is chasing her down, Casey is talking to Lee and I’m guessing Mallory (sis-in-law)
One 50min call at 1:46am with Lee, and numerous back and forth calls between Lee, Mallory, and Casey up until 3:08am.
I’m almost convinced Cindy knew something was up on July3rd and her reason for posting on MySpace isn’t to communicate to Casey. That’s what voicemail is for, right?
Why?
Here’s the record I’m referring too.
http://www.docstoc.com/search/casey-anthony,-cell-phone-records?catfilter=1
Alternatives? Theories and observations that have not been touted over the last 2 years.
Artgal, why do you say there is real physical evidence? If you are right then LE is violating the laws of discovery and it won’t be allowed. All the defense has to do is point out when LE had access to such evidence and that it wasn’t turned over promptly. Each time they release “evidence” there case gets weaker and weaker. Surely if they had real inculpatory evidence they wouldn’t hide it until the last minute and risk it being excluded from trial.
“WE” have no evidence what so ever that she drugged her child. I’ve heard many people making jokes about over active children saying they might use something they could have a break. So any statement like that alone isn’t enough to show evidence or a pattern. We don’t know what any person does with their children when they are alone with them. We’ve never seen Casey interact at all with her except on video so WE can’t judge that at all. All we can judge is what we’ve seen and what her acquaintances and family say, which is quite the opposite of what you are saying and what LE want us to believe. Sure, it would be considered child endangerment if she knowingly handed Caylee over to an abusive person, a human traficker or pedophile but there is no evidence that is the case. That is only speculation, based on the presupposition or assumption that she must be guilty because she didn’t report her missing. That is not the way justice is obtained.
Finally, I couldn’t possibly label her a sociopath or anything else because I have never even talked to her. I have only seen her under very specific conditions, which are not sufficient to evaluate anyone, even if I were a psychiatrist, which I am not. Are you? She was evaluated but we are not privy to those assessments. I now lots of people that lie, some that steal, many that would more fit the description of promiscuous than her. I doubt any of them are sociopaths. Have you ever noticed the word promise hidden within that word? Part of this is opinion, part fact, but the former is based on the later.
Respectfully submitted – Who had access to Caylee in this time frame? Who had a motive to take her and kill her?
During the time Lee is chasing Casey
7/4/2008 13:23:04 SMS Begins Casey Patrick
7/4/2008 13:24:06 SMS Begins Casey Tony Lazzaro
7/4/2008 13:24:51 SMS Ends Patrick Casey
7/4/2008 13:25:18 SMS Begins Casey Patrick
7/4/2008 13:26:18 SMS Ends Patrick Casey
7/4/2008 13:28:28 SMS Begins Casey Patrick
7/4/2008 13:29:37 SMS Ends Patrick Casey
7/4/2008 13:30:30 SMS Begins Casey Patrick
Patrick enters the picture. I think this is Patrick B, who first visited her in jail. There are 7 calls going back and forth from 1:23pm till 1:30pm.
Are these multiple hang up calls or am I reading the SMS incorrectly? Why is Casey calling him?
theories, theories, theories, and more conspiracies.
simple. write casey and tell her to OUT the person involved and responsible, so taxpayers can stop housing her and the orange county sheriffs dpt. can reclaim their good name. simple.
I won the Powerball last week, it just hasn’t been revealed.
lol
Was that a joke?
Amy,
It’s really not that simple since Casey is now on trial for her life. Coming forward now would be useless. The time for that was before the SAO decided they had enough circumstantial to try her for Murder I. Now it’s game on.
Hi Venice,
Yes, it’s a joke. I’m referring to Artgal’s statement.
Artgal16 said:
“There is physical evidence. It has not been revealed ” Don’t you want to ask her, if it hasn’t been revealed, then HOW does she know?
Hi JB,
Oh, lol….I thought you really won! Damn, I was going to say Congrats!
If she is innocent then why on earth has she sat quiet for this long? If there is proof of her innocence, submit it
Thank you very much Zuben. Excellent comment.
If I may say something…….
Everyone who is wracking their brains with all the name chasing…..Zanaida, Fernandez, Gonzalez, Rusciano, Patrick, etc., has fallen prey to Caseys game. It is all a scheme, and she is thrilled that people are buying into it and getting extremely confused by it all. Casey is a master-manipulator, and she knows how to successfully commit fraud.
Casey didn’t have a motive. Who did? That’s what I’m trying to figure out. They say she’s a liar and a thief. IMO, there’s people with much more motive to hurt Casey than Casey to harm/kill her daughter.
I’m surprised, when Artgal16 makes a statement as profound as “they have physical evidence” that people aren’t bombarding her for the information. Maybe it’s because they know it’s not true and want to avoid the subject.
I believe they do, and I believe the defense has been privy to it.
I don’t believe either story..Sawgrass or Blanchard park. This is where I am and that’s why I see things differently. What I see is Casey wasn’t that bad of a person. Annie D and lots of her other friends all say she was a good mother and very protective of Casey. She even told Tony Rusciano that Caylee came first. She had over a 1000 pictures of Caylee on her mySpace page so it’s not like she was trying to hide her. She was a proud mom. What I think of Casey doesn’t come from the media, it comes from what I’ve read in the docs. I just can’t put too much stock in what the media says because I know “anything good about Casey” doesn’t sell on TV or in newspapers…that’s the bottomline. Even stomped-on ex-BF Jesse says she was a good mother and he doesn’t think she could have killed Caylee. He said “not the Casey I know”.
After Caylee’s remains were found, I was really hoping for direct evidence (forensics) to be found. That would work for me, but none has been reported yet. Only a mysterious DNA. hmm, can’t like that, but it is what it is.
I also don’t believe Caylee’s body was 11 houses away the whole entire time. That’s JMO. So there’s another piece of doubt I have.
Casey used Zanaidas name before in a traffic violation. Isn’t it wierd that another ZFG looked at that same apartment she claimed to have dropped off Caylee? Talk about a huge coincidence with that exact same name she used on the traffic ticket.
Also, people do kill. People you would have never even fathomed doing such a thing. Mothers perform this horrible act all the time, and I believe Casey was pushed to the edge by her mother….as Cindy threatened custody. Casey is a story-teller, and I truly believe she thought this story would fly.
If I was facing the DP, I would not care one bit if my information was useless. Florida is a DP state, and I am going to move heaven and earth to try to get my information in to get me OUT.
we all have our Opinions and Theories in this Case.
Mine just so happen to be that Casey Anthony is the one responsible for her Daughter Caylee’s Death.
I have watched this Case unfold from the Beginning like so many others who blog here.
It has been mentioned here that some of Casey’s Friends and naturally her Parents made Statements how good of a Mother Casey was to Caylee, that is just their Opinions, I don’t know these People therefore I can’t say I believe everything they said.
Also just because there are plenty Pictures taken of Caylee by Casey, that also doesn’t prove anything to the Effect how good of a Mother she was.
I believe there is plenty documented Evidence in this Case which points straight to the Accused Casey Anthony! It is not my Job to list all the Evidence the State has against
Casey Anthony, I leave that up to the Professionals in this Case. Casey has a Team of Defense Attorneys to defend her, she doesn’t need us.
Caylee Marie Anthony the Murder Victim in this Case also has someone to speak for her loud and clear, the Prosecution! Her Voice will be heard at the Trial through Evidence which does exist despite some People’s Belief. It then will show who committed this heinous Crime against defenseless Caylee Marie.
12 Jurors will be the One’s who ultimately will have to decide after carefully examining All the Evidence which will be laid out to them by the Prosecution and the Defense if the Accused Casey Anthony is guilty of this Crime. I have Faith Justice will be done for Caylee
and her Murderer will be held responsible. JMO
Everyone said Scott Peterson was a loving, wonderful husband.
Venice,
Thanks for mentioning the two ZG’s. Actually there are quite a few more ZG’s as Zuben has gathered from her extensive research. One in particular is involved in real estate. It would be interesting to know who directed ZCG to Sawgrass Apts.
You really believe Casey had such a network of influential people as friends?
You are deluding yourselves. If Casey Anthony was innocent she would not be sitting in jail the past 2 years. her actions and no remorse tell all. I really can’t believe this…She’s ultimately responsible for the disapearance and death of Caylee, NO ONE ELSE and she will be found guilty. There are facts, evidence and forensics and her own actions that a reasonable jury will hear. Get over it!
I think you must be getting all the traffic from the other forums now. I’m really glad to have a place that asks questions. I think you must be asking the right ones because people are gathering here to tell you to shush. Don’t let them get you down. It happens on all the forums.
So, if they don’t release the evidence that points to her guilt, what does that make what’s been released so far? The case appears to get weaker with each document release instead of stronger. I also don’t believe the baby’s body was there all along. There is a picture on WS that shows how close the tent that covered the remains was to the road. I just don’t believe in all the searching that was done that it could have been missed. As the poster stated with the picture it appears someone took less than two steps into the woods and left the little body.
Kim, I’m sorry I didn’t address the 2nd part of your question. You asked who else had access to Caylee?
I don’t know who had access to Caylee but since I’m convinced that Casey did have a babysitter, it could be that person, whoever he/she may be.
Thanks for asking and I respect you too.
I don’t think her defense attorneys would allow her to say a word at this point. It’s the state of Florida’s responsibilty to prove her guilt, not the defendent’s job to prove her innocence, right?
I wholeheartedly agree Renee. The finding of Caylee’s remains at the end of the block is very suspicious. How it wasn’t found earlier is a mystery to me and a huge oversight on LE’s part. It just doesn’t make sense considering so many searchers missed the remains in Aug/Sept 08. IMO, this will be the most debated topic of the trial.
Thanks for the encouragement Renee. It’s a long road, but we’ll get there. 😀
Venice,
Since you were interested in Zenaida Gonzalez, I want to direct you to Zuben who’s done a extensive research on the subject. You might find it interesting.
Where did one person say to “shush”? Obviously, this blog is only for people who are chasing Caseys fantasy double-life.
Anybody who totes a toddler to a drinking and drug binged party is NOT OK, at least not in my book. I will let you carry on to defend such trash. Actions speak louder than words….and her actions when she was out on bail are priceless.
Sorry for the invasion to shush you.
Venice, I doubt anyone was telling you to shush. I read, but rarely comment, but I find “the other side of the coin” fascinating. Regardless of your feelings or impressions, I think you will find this site fair and open to all suggestions, ideas, and comments without recrimination. It is simply a lively debate between differing opinions.
Thanks, but no thanks. I will not entertain Caseys delusions. Maybe when she was at Target after Caylee was kidnapped, she should have bought some brains. Maybe then she would have remembered EVERYBODYS telephone numbers, so LE could look into it.
Venice, how was Casey successful at fraud? She signed her own name to a check with someone else’s name on the top. She did it in front of video cameras., ever single one. She admitted her guilt. That is successful fraud? Well, on second thought, maybe you are right. If she is innocent and Caylee was taken hostage while her source of income was cut off, it might not be called fraud if she was doing as instructed to keep he daughter alive. I’m not saying that is what happened. I don’t have enough information to make that judgment. But, that would make her successful at fraudulently making everyone believe she was simply stealing for her own selfish purposes.
Have you thought about why a successful and nearly retired attorney would join the team nearly 2 years into the “game” and boldly state he is going to have fun carrying his innocent client out of the court room? Surely he wouldn’t take on something like this as his grand finally if he wasn’t quite sure it wasn’t a dud. I think the fact he is doing this pro bono says it all. Look at her defense team. Baez is the only one that wasn’t already very well known before this case. Each of them has a lot of experience under their belt and quite good reputations for success. Why would they all pick a guilty client to give themselves away too? Andrea Lyon is the only one that I could believe that of but she too, says her client is innocent. Of course, there is that possibility that they all took it on simply because the state is treating her so different that other accused murderers. They don’t even ask for the death penalty on many very brutal premeditated murder cases. They made Casey special for some reason. So, special circumstances have brought special philanthropic efforts, perhaps. That alone would spur me to consider offering my services if I had anything to offer, just to get the death penalty off so she is treated more like others accused under similar circumsances. but even more so If I knew she is innocent.
I agree. Joe Jordon and many others were right at the tree line, if not further in. Then there is Cain and Kronk. If Caylee was there then, even if there was no flesh left to give off an odor that people say never leaves, the blanket, clothing and canvas bag would still contain fluids and the odor. There is no way their nose wouldn’t have led them to the same spot Kronk said he saw it 2 days prior.
she signed amys name. thank you.
Mason? lol. the Nelson Serrano trial speaks for him.
YES, she did sign Amys name on one of them. I wasn’t even referring to that fraud. Forging bank statements and taking hold of anothers SSI is what I was referring to. Wow. and, she did not successfully commit fraud?
How is buying paper towels, clothes, and beer keeping Caylee alive?
Venice, it is impossible that Casey Anthony got that ticket and signed the name ZG. I have seen the signature and it is not similar in any way. Also, the last payment that was made before the girl seems to have went into hiding makes it impossible that it was Casey since she was traveling between Baez’ office and getting chased down by LE to make a dramatic arrest for Murder 1. I think there is a copy of the signature at Richard Hornsby’s blog. He was interested enough to go to that clerk’s office, to get a copy.
If she didn’t before, she sure does now.
Do you realize how many people sat on death row, to later be completely exonerated that everyone said the same thing about? Many of them are right there in Florida. All we know is what the state wants us to know at this point. Much of what has been said, simply isn’t true and that will be proven. We don’t know who was the last person to see Caylee alive. We do know that the last time George saw her she left with Casey. But we don’t KNOW anything else at this point. There is not one piece of physical evidence found with or on Caylee that ties Casey to her, not even a hair. What are the odds of that? Very slim if she were with her a very short time before her death.The tape did not come from the same roll as at the home, but even if it did, Reyes, who sits in jail as an accused pedophile, took the families tape bind his victim’s mouth. All of the items with Caylee would be expected to be with her if she were left with a trusted sitter, killed then disposed of. They surely wouldn’t keep her private possessions, unless he had a shoe fetish or kept some sort of memento, like serial killers do.
wow…with you as her biggest fan. LOL.
George lied about that. That was a LIE.
Venice, why do you sound so angry? Haven’t you ever invited guests to your home and served alcohol? I certainly have and we don’t ship our kids off somewhere. We might have them sleep in our bed so that if anyone drinks more than is safe they can stay the night. That hasn’t been necessary though. I don’t find Caylee being present when her mom is socializing to be a sign of being an unfit or abusive mother. Now, if she was prostituting her self then that is different. She would need to find a sitter for the night.
I need a loan….lol
Exactly. What makes this site different is that simply pointing out facts that aren’t popular doesn’t bring name calling and bashing, as on most sites. I hope it stays that way.
What proof or evidence do you have to base that on?
HIS APPEARANCE on GMA on the 15th of June. They marked Caylees disappearance on the 15th of June, not the same day he gave to LE. thank you.
Did he say June 15, Father’s day was the last time he saw Caylee?
Are you serious? What generation are you from? Casey did not go to “social gatherings”, like our parents used to throw. wow…I am floored by your response. this is sick!!!!
i agree. geez…doing the hustle and kissing other girls while sucking on a ectasy lollipop, and that was proper? i’m outta here. carry on Zuben.
I guess I could search the archives, but does anyone know if the story about Casey running up Cindy’s charge card some $40k is real or rumor? I’m just wondering if that is true, what exactly did Casey buy with that amount of money?
I just hop you both realize that stating your opinion, whether it is to say she was sucking on an ecstacy lolipop or that I am sick, it is simply your opinion and not a fact. It is only proven fact that can convict Ms Anthony, not your or my opinion.
Sister, I’ve only read that in blog rumors, nothing like that in the docs or interviews at all as far as I know. Casey did have the JC Penny card in her possession and made one or two purchases during that time. But, Cindy had to know she had it and I saw now sign of her asking for it back it texts, etc.
Zuben, you are deluding yourself again. This time, FLA has got it right and I don’t care about the other cases. 2 year old innocent, helpless child, life snuffed out by the person she loved the most….Imagine the horror of her final moments, because the jury damn sure will ace.
I have a question. Does anyone know how she paid for the tattoo? I remember reading Casey had another appt. on July 16 for another tattoo. I wondered where did she get the money?
I have a son who is Casey’s age. I use his activities and that of his very hot-looking girlfriend as a meter of what’s going on in this generation, so when I look at Casey, I see she looks and acts pretty much the same as my soon to be daughter-in-law. Granted Casey’s a single mom, with no daddy in site, but I see her actions are lame to normal as compared to some I’ve heard about.
What’s different about my perspective is her activities at Fusion nightclub. I can NOT for the life of me see a girl who just murdered her daughter. I see a young girl who’s child is being taken care of and she’s partying the night away. She thinks Caylee is safe.
Now who is Caylee with I haven’t a clue.
Did Casey do a full blown background check of this person? Not likely. Probably never seen a driver’s license. I have met people in my later years of life, that I have no background information on them and have known them for a few years. At 23yrs old, I would have trusted them to watch my children, not today tho. Just being honest.
It’s possible that Casey did have a babysitter somewhere. IMO
How can any “good mother” who just came from finding out her babysitter has disappeared with her daughter, rent movies, sit and watch them and then have sex with her boyfriend on June 15? I am a mother. If my child was missing for 5 minutes I would freak out. 31 days. This is what will convict Casey.
Caylee had been murdered by the infamous pictures. The trunk stain will support that, and the roots growing through her bones will support the length of time she was in the woods. Partying because her daughter was safe??? This is unbelieveable!
Zee: You said:
I see no evidence that Casey didn’t lover her daughter or take good care of her. I see no evidence that she drugged or abused her in any way. She had more to gain, if she chose to, through her being alive than dead. She could have easily gotten public assistance, free college tuition and nearly free housing as a single mother, if she chose. I know many people that have done that.
========================================
Very good point. I hadn’t thought about this. She definitely had more to gain with Caylee alive. She had more than one option, that’s obvious. No need to commit murder and jeopardize her entire life not to mention killing her own child.
Casey go on public assistance?? Casey go on welfare??? Casey go to college??? This is where everybody is OFF TRACK. Casey DID NOT want those things. Casey wanted a high-roller lifestyle. A lifestyle like that does not include babies and her new biggest supporter, Tony, wanted only male offspring in the distant future. Casey is so transparent, and like Eastwood said………..FLA has it RIGHT on this one. Casey is another Diane Downs. Good Night!!
I’m not trying to win a popularity contest, that’s obvious. But I can think of a few reasons why a mother might not want to push the hand of a probable kidnapper. It might be a good idea to act nicey nice before you run and call 911.
No one knows the real situation, so it’s hard to say what we would have done. Before I decide, (not that it’s up to me or anyone else who blogs about this case) I need a few answers to a few questions. Hopefully, at trial we’ll get a glimpse of a new possibility.
BTW, does anyone know how Casey paid for her tattoo?
Well, I have some comments.
George stated….”We are watching them. They know we are watching them”.
That speaks VOLUMES to me.
and, where is the PLEA for the babysitter everytime they utilize our airwaves?????
exactly. it comes right from the horses mouths.
I just don’t see a conviction on first-degree murder, period. That is my stance, not that Casey is “innocent” or “guilty” as people tend to commonly phrase it. The Prosecution can not withhold evidence, and there will not be secret physical evidence jumping out of a gigantic cake at trial like a lot of people tend to believe.
Some folks are too fanatical about this case and base their opinions on their raging desire to see Casey burned at the stake. These are the ones that blow up at people who have a non-conformative opinion, instead of participating in a friendly debate. It is nice to see those who CAN do that, like EDRN (thank you).
Oh, no way, Sister. Casey’s assets fit into her tiny room inside of the Anthony home. She didn’t even own the Pontiac. I bet her television set was probably her biggest asset.
I think the only credit card of Cindy’s in her possession on a regular basis was the JC Penney and I’m sure they don’t give $40,000 credit lines. If she did have a way to charge up that much on visa or mc, she must have gone on a lot of vacations that no one knows about,
This, I believe, was just another rumor gone wild.
I meant my first sentence to be I don’t see a conviction on first-degree murder DESERVING OF THE DEATH PENALTY!!! That’s an important difference.
Hello taybos,
I think the rumor is more about the amount. The story came from Cindy’s mother Shirley Pleasea. Cindy was in a lot of debt b/c of Casey and George. This is when she was thinking about divorcing George and she put this information in an email to her mother.
If they say it’s $40K, I would guess it’s more like $25K. Just a guess.
Convict her of first-degree murder? They have a big burden of proof to show premeditation. A burden big enough to convince a jury. And remember, this isn’t going to be a jury consisting of people like you see on these blogs who are extremely opinionated…….
Utilize our airways, good one!
Taybos, I completely agree. It is possible I could be convinced that she did do this, if the state can show one hair is really showing normal decomp and not just some anomaly, as the FBI person said it might be. Or perhaps there is something else they can present better at trial than they have so far in the docs. Maybe they’ll finally release the testing done on the gut of the maggots in the trunk and it will show human dna for lunch. I highly doubt it, but you never know in this case. Of course, if they do it at this late date I certainly hope the defense will test it themselves to make sure it is true. But anyway, there needs to be something to connect Casey to her deceased child before I will be reasonable convinced. Even then, I could be convinced it was an accident just as easily as any sort of premeditation. Neither has been shown yet but could be at trial.
As it stands now, with just what we’ve been shown so far, it looks like two possibilities to me. One, and the most likely in my opinion, is that she was left with someone and either that person or the pedophile boyfriend killed her. The other possibility is that a child in potty training had an accident, the mother went into an uncontrolled rage and killed her. I doubt this one since her text to Amy about this subject didn’t seem to sound like she resented this required task of motherhood. But, I suppose it is possible. If she had that kind of uncontrolled temper, though, there would have been signs of such abuse much earlier, like when she first got old enough to climb or walk, getting into things.
JB, when they brought her purse back there was $200 cash in it. If we add the total of the checks and the receipts for what she bought with those checks, the difference may show what she paid for that tatoo. But, I’m not recalling right now if the date of the tattoo was after those checks. If she was a friend they may not have charged her normally either. Her’s was pretty simple so wouldn’t be expensive at all. George’s would be much more expensive.
Being on a show on June 15 doesn’t prove he was lying in any way. Did you hear him say the last time he saw her was June 15? I assume not since you didn’t say yes to my previous question. Don’t forget, there are production schedules. Their thinking might have been to do it the day before because that would bring Caylee into the public’s mind for the next couple of days or they may have needed to have an edge on a competitor’s show that day. This is what frustrates me most about this case. Everything they say is said to be a lie. You know, there are two important dates that happened on the 15th, the last video shot of Caylee in June and the day they found out Casey didn’t know where she was, in July. So, even if he said the 15th of June I would have to consider the possibility that he mixed up all the 15ths and 16ths in this case. Don’t forget, there are two 16s to, the day George last saw her and the day his daughter was arrested. Then there is the mysterious 9th that I still have questions about.
you guys all talk like you HAVE all the facts. Zuben pretty much has her exonerated. What a joke!! and you talk about the people who see the guilt so clear…what a hypocrisy!! takes one to know one.
Val says it far better than I could:
200,031 Reasons I believe Casey is Guilty
http://tinyurl.com/2429uy4
To Sleuth Zuben:
NO, I did not answer your response because you were right. Big ego, or what?
I do have a life.
Georgie said with FIRM WORDS: “I last saw my grandaughter on the 16th of June @ 1pm. I know that for a god-darn fact because I always watch that cooking show at this time”.
You don’t need to give me all your drivel on production schedules, and so forth. THEY marked the death ON the anniversary date. Jamie is right….you CAN’T STAND to hear OUR opinions either. Hypocrites!
extremely opinioniated? YES. and extremely SMART. thank you.
why do you see that as a “good one”?
I added that link before I read all the comments. After reading them I see it’s more important than ever for some people to have the facts. I really encourage anyone who still thinks there’s even the remotest chance of Casey being not guilty to read this link. I think every post of Val’s is filled with thoughtful intelligence but this particular piece should be REQUIRED READING for every single person involved in this case.
200,031 Reasons I Believe Casey is Guilty
http://tinyurl.com/2429uy4
Bees Knees~~ thanks for that Url, it brought back everything what happened in the Beginning of this sad Case.
When Caylee was first reported missing by Cindy A. I wanted to believe there was a reasonable Explanation for it. It soon became very apparent there wasn’t.
Casey Anthony did not whatsoever help the Authorities to find her own Daughter!
The Authorities, like the FBI and all the other Investigators put timeless Hours in to find Caylee and bring her home, all that time no Help from Casey instead she mislead the Authorities every Chance she had with her Lies and wasted precious time, which could have been used more productive. The only Statement which came close to being true coming out of Casey’s Mouth was, she believed her Daughter is close by, she can feel it! Well yes she obviously did know where Caylee was and she was close by like she said. Caylee was double bagged in a Garbage Bag lying in the Woods just a few Blocks away from the Anthony Home.
Casey got lucky in a Sense because the Hurricane hit and put the Location where Caylee’s Body was dumped under Water and it couldn’t be searched according to Tim Miller. By the time she was found there were only skeleton Remains of her left, which made it impossible to determine how she was killed only that it was a Homicide by undetermined Means.
At the same time the Prosecution will be able to prove by using their Experts how long that Body has been at that Location, most likely they will show it has been there since June 2008 and despite some People’s Statements has never been moved.
But enough of that I don’t need to repeat every thing what has happened since Caylee was reported missing until now it all has been pretty much discussed.
I do believe the State of Florida has a good Case against Casey Anthony, they worked tired less on this Case to bring Justice to Caylee.
There were no Kidnappers or any one else who is responsible for what happened to Caylee.
Casey Anthony will have to answer for what happened to her Daughter when the Trial starts.
It really doesn’t look good for her but she put herself in that Situation, no one else did!
She had Choices and she made the wrong One. Why she did, only Casey knows.
Caylee Marie never had the Option to make a Choice for herself, her Mother did it for her! JMO
Thank you!! I 100% agree with that logic and wisdom. At the time those pictures were sold, Casey had ONLY been charged with Child Endangerment and Lying to the Authorities. What was the BIG NEED for the Dream Team I ask? Beacuse they KNEW the TRUTH, and Casey needed that Dream Team.
I agree with Amy. You can see the other side of the coin in this poor babys murder, but our opinions are just as valuable and they are correct. You are all taken in by Caseys “supernatural kidnapping story” adamant there is a babysitter out there.
Like Shawn said….” Georgie said, “we are watching them”.
Well, George, then GO GET THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!
I remember the media telling Cindy that her grandaughter might be dead.
and Cindy replied….”oh, no, not again”.
I guess because I am a mother and a grand mother I can’t get past the 31 days until Caylee was even reported missing. Casey’s demeanor since then has not helped convince me she was anything but responsible. Sitting in a jail cell facing the DP would be highly motivating, IMO, to any innocent person to speak out.
No Anthony has yet demand LE find the ‘real killer’. Why?
JB, I was reading over Val’s time line and it appears that KC stayed overnight with Amy H. & Ricardo M. on July 2nd. On July 3rd, Amy discovered $400 she had saved for her trip to PR was missing. Casey got her tattoo on July 3rd. So it looks like Amy may have paid for it. KC also made several purchases at the FL Mall. Prior to July 3rd, KC was using CAs JC Penney’s credit card to purchase clothing.
Some things I don’t understand:
On 6/24 KC makes an online $377 cell phone payment, could this be the $ she stole from her grandparents before Father’s Day?
Around June 26/27 the car runs out of gas and is abandoned at Amscot. On 7/3 Amy finds her $400 missing. Later that same day, KC gets the tattoo and goes shopping at FL Mall. How much does a tattoo like that cost? And, how is she getting around? Is TL driving her around or who’s car is she driving?
By July 8, she is writing checks on Amy’s account. Is she driving Amy’s car now (she is supposedly in PR).
On 7/15 KC cashes a check for $250 (Amy’s) and tries to pay a cell phone bill of $574, but not enough $ left in account, yet according to Val’s time line, she did pay the cell phone bill (online) later the same day.
Looks like she’ll do anything to make sure that cell phone bill is paid.
Now, back to the abandoned car. KC had texted Amy about the stench in her car and made the reference that GA had borrowed her car and possibly run over something…the dead squirrel? Now, KC apparently intended to return and get the car (three days later)…had Amy take her to Target to buy gas can and gas (it had already been towed that morning). What would make you return to pick up a car that had that type of stench unless it wasn’t that bad when she ditched it? Did she ever look in the trunk? She told Amy the smell was coming from under the hood.
I’m thinking and rambling now. I’m beginning to wonder about GA.
p.s. if I’m off on Val’s time line, it’s just because I’m having trouble following it.
For the record, opinions are neither right or wrong, until the hard evidence proves the opinion is a fact. Only “facts” are right or wrong. If those “facts” are wrong, they aren’t facts after all. That is true whether it is mine of someone else’s. Now, as for being a hypocrite, that is nearly as far from being a fact as the statement that her selling pictures of her daughter or not calling 911 when she discovered someone wasn’t giving her daughter back is proof of her guilt of first degree murder. That is jumping to conclusions without all the facts. We won’t know what all the facts are until trial. So, enough on that.
JB, MD has a new video I had to watch because it is another of his multiple shoots at the remains site. Here is a safe link. http://anonymouse.org/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://marinadedave.com/2010/06/20/two-years-later/#comment-138070 Once again, he focused more down the road than where she was found but I must give credit where credit is due, even to someone I have no respect for. He did a very good job of proving how much steeper, low elevation and able to retain water it is down the road to the East, nearer the next light pole. That area has a very steep grade and has some water standing. Where Caylee was found is much higher elevation and doesn’t drop off extremely at all. There is clearly no water there, although he has to add but I’m sure its moist, even though he didn’t step one foot in. He said it is the rainy season, even showed himself driving home in the rain. I have to wonder though, why is he so determined to try to prove that area was flooded in June of 2008 but then does such a good job of showing it probably wasn’t.
Wunderground shows that there was no rain at the airport at 5:53 pm on the 19th, when he says he shot this video. (He also seems to be setting up his alibi in case anyone says he was any of the trolls on a certain site yesterday. Someone was certainly busy, I went there to read a little.) Anyway, at 6:39 a thunderstorm is reported, rain lasting until early this morning. Of course, he shows sunshine and shadows in the video that appear to be late afternoon, early evening. You can see a dark cloud overhead which turned into a thunderstorm. So, he wasn’t busy all day long when that trolling motor was running at warp speed. But, even if he was, the person was doing his dirty work, no doubt. The wind came from the South, where the airport is and picked up speed as the storm became active. I’d say he got the scene shot just before the dark clouds took over.
He did a lot of starting and stopping his camera. For what reason, I ask? I went back to look at the pattern of the troll late afternoon/evening. I saw a couple of 10 minute breaks and see that there was a rapid fire tripple shot ending at 5:36 but then a break of an hour, next troll calling himself neeger, at 6:35 pm. Hmmm, fits perfectly with the shadows and rain shown in his own video. Hey, do you remember that trial where the shadows proved the person was guilty or innocent? That’s my kind of forensics. These 10 minute breaks would be plenty long enough for him to shoot a little, go back to his car, post a few nasty comments on his laptop, then go back to shooting. But an hour is plenty of time to have done this whole shoot. Since the pic of him in the park in that magazine article show him with laptop in his lap I’m sure he has wireless on the go. Busted!
He needs a horticulture lesson. What he is calling Kudzu vine is actually Air Potato, Dioscorea bulbifera. It’s quite easy to tell the difference because Air potato has a very clear heart shape, Kudzu does not and is clearly a legume, growing seeds in a pod. Some of the leaves of Kudzu are entire but some are a compound, 3 part leaf\., They do have one thing in common though. They are both invasive foreigners that grow at an super fast rate. Kudzo has even been nicknamed “Mile a Minute”. Here is some good information for his benefit, compliments of the University of Florida. http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/node/133 and http://plants.ifas.ufl.edu/node/354
Well, I’ve had my sleuthing fun for the day. Now off to celebrate my Father’s Day. Have a good one all!
Oh, I forgot to say, the month’s rain so far is 2.55″ and the average is 4.49 by the 20th of the month of June. The same time in 2008 had rainfall of just over 5″ so was slightly over average, not that much really. That’s only 2 storms in 20 days that gives 2.5″ in a downpour. anyway, July of 08 saw 7.35″ barely over the average of 7.15″. August 9 showed month to date precipitation of 0.68 , well below the average of 1.82″ normal at that time. I hardly believe it was flooded in that area at that time in 2008 when Kronk went there. I think this subject is what prompted my being called a schmuck, LOL.
geesh. lol.
I remember that footing. An upset with Caylee has happened before, and her statement backs that up. Cindy just loves to yap..
Respecting each other is a good thing. So very little of it left on these blogs
ummm, Mason also made a public statement before he took on the case, and it goes like this…..
“Caseys guilt is obvious, and she should take a plea for life in prison”.
Thank you Zuben, I like your sleuthing. I guess I’m going to have to hold my nose and check out the video. It’s kind of like when I had to vote for a governor when his opponent was the duke of the KKK. Anyway, enjoy the day.
I haven’t heard those words from Cheney but I did hear something about him walking out of the court room hand in hand with Casey. Do you happen to have the article with this comment? TIA
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/18268796/detail.html
it is under the heading “Experts Discuss Discovery”.
I worded my statement wrong and I am acknowledging it. His whole summary is a huge contrast of his thoughts now!! LOL.
I have that link as well.
David,
Did you read the total cost of the Serrano trial?? My Lord! I knew that guy was guilty from day one, and his actions and lack of remorse showed it!! I followed that case to a tee.
Thank you Sister Blister,
I forgot the $400 which could have been used for the tattoo. KC used Amy’s car when she left for PR and returned on July 15, the day of the face off with Cindy. I puzzled too, why would KC want to retrieve the car? But obviously she did. She didn’t look in the trunk because she thought the smell was coming from under the engine is possible.
Outrageous, huh? There was not ONE shred of evidence pointing the finger to Serrano, but he was not that clever and the circumstantial evidence was over-whelming:)
where are the dead squirrels CASEY said she saw splattered on the undercarriage of the engine?? Why make up a smell story at all? Casey is her own worst enemy!
Amy,
Name calling isn’t cool. You’ve made your point, so leave it at that.
Thank you,
JB
Exactly. The defense could use those squirrels as evidence of having had something that “died” in that car. Casey texted that statement about the squirrels. Where are the squirrels?
“HAPPY FATHER’S Day” to All the Father’s out there in Blogging Land! 😉
If I may…
the author of the blog stated the name ZG goes way back to 2006. And that proves? Caseys imaginary friend has been around for quite some time, and not ONE person knows her? Not one?? C’mon people….you ALL seem like very well-grounded people with excellent wisdom. 2006 would bring Caylee to an INFANT, and Cindy pretty much nurtured her through her infancy. Cindy does not know the individual who watched Caylee as an infant? So many photographs….where is Zanny?
I hear you! At least throw me a bone Casey…….give me AT LEAST ONE verifiable address or telephone number that ZG has had over the course of 4 years in the Orlando area where she used to watch Caylee, and possibly the neighbors or the Landlords could verify it. Just One! Casey HAS to know of just ONE. RIGHT?
Totally agree with you David. Why isn’t the defense’s main focus on finding Zenaida. That says it all for me. They have private investigators, haven’t heard anything from that camp on “we are looking for Zenaida”….or we are looking for Jennifer Rosa, Raquel Farrell, Annabelle, Jeffrey Hopkins, Zachary etc. I find it hard to believe that there is this big conspiracy to keep these people hidden just so Casey will be convicted of murder.
Name chasing. Caseys game of name chasing keeps you active and alert. LOL.
instead of working to lead LE to find Caylee, she sends them to an old-folks home. her reasoning? she dropped Caylee off at this address once. isn’t it funny? Casey only “drops” off Caylee and then leaves. what mother just DROPS off their toddler, not go into the home, and then leaves???? WOW!
Casey stated that ZG mother owned a unit at that old folks home. LIE. Oh, but at least Casey could POINT out the window of the complex she used to leave Caylee at. Unreal.
also Juliette Lewis, Rusciano, Lazzaro, Ricardo Morales, Jesse Grund, Samantha, Gloria (ZG mom), ZG, the almighty babysitter, who is a hot-looking 10 with tons of money that babysits and just happens to drive a car with NY plates that ZGF also drove with….WOW…..I would think anybody with as much money as she supposedly had would have a verifiable address that somebody could CONFIRM.
or at least have a traceable bank account in orlando that would connect her with caylee. caseys response? she only carried cash.
in the 911 call when casey says “hello”, she sounds so annoyed….like she has something better to do and we are wasting her time. too bad the calls will be admissable. casey sounded frantic when reporting an “altercation” out front of her home, but with her toddler, she sounds just annoyed!!!!
I believe it is shown elsewhere on this blog that a Gloria Gonzalez owned a condo in the next block up. Isn’t it possible, since this was some time prior, that Casey had the wrong complex, up the road from the right one? I think it is probable since there was really this name on the deed.
People who don’t want to be traced or tracked only deal in cash and don’t leave a paper trail. Illegals are one good example of this.
oh dear lord, you really have an excuse for every inch of bad behavior. i see now your reasoning.
JB, I just read this for the 2nd time and realize, I really know very little about this man or what part he played in Casey’s life. What do we know about him. I know there were a couple of guys that really cared about her and maybe he just went to see her for that reason, completely innocent. Do we have any reason to think it might have been more than that?
are you saying Hispanics are a good example of illegals??????
Jamie,
There’s no hypocrisy here. I’d appreciate less insinuations.
TY,
JB
Beesknees,
I assure you most of the people here are well aware of the so-called facts. If you read the post, I’ve explained my dilemna with this case. Obviously, there’s more than one of us who are questioning the so-called facts. That’s why this blog exist, for open discussion of the points we question and invite anyone else who feels the same.
For the ones who are already convinced by the so-called facts, jump in anytime you please. Just keep in mind you’re not preaching to people who aren’t in the know.
TY,
JB
Hi JB!
I enjoyed this article.
“SMS” refers to a text message, not a phone call. So this was a texting message between the two parties.
JB,
As I stated up thread, I enjoyed this article. There is one statement you make that I take issue with, but I also realize it may that you weren’t trying to convey the way I read it, so I’ll wait to hear your response. You state:
LE failed to find Caylee for a number of reasons. Dick Cain, Casey Anthony, Cindy Anthony and George Anthony.
OCSO can’t get off the hook because the atrocious conduct of Richard Cain, but the point is that August is 2 months out from when this baby actually went missing (which actually means was murdered). So…just sayin’.
Dave,
I don’t know if you’re a parent but if I had the choice of thinking my granddaughter was dead or alive. I’d pick ALIVE every single time.
why would you have to hold your nose when reading daves article? I know him on a personal level. I thought there was no judgement or hate here.
Hi Veronica. I assume you are talking to me? I wasn’t referring to any group of people other than using anyone that is here illegally as an example of a group that would not leave a paper trail. Those dealing in human trafficking, even illegal internet activities are another couple of groups too.
David,
( I feel like I’m going in circles with this Zenaida Gonzalez thing) If you are so sure that Zenaida Gonzalez doesn’t exist, please tell me you’ve searched yourself and you haven’t found any other person named Zenaida Gonzalez except for the Zenaida C. Gonzales from Sawgrass Apartments.
well, let’s see, she was talking about the babysitter who is hispanic. then your response contained the term illegals. so, yes…..I did suspect that “insinuation” from you.
People assume she made that story up because they assume she had her daughter dead in the trunk and was trying to cover up. I’m sure all of us have had opportunity to have dead animal residue or parts plaster to the underside or our cars. Mice get in and die, etc. Nasty. So it isn’t impossible that this is a true story. One reason I think so is that she hadn’t seen Amy at all so Amy would not have had opportunity to smell anything and ask her about it. Casey is the one bringing it up for no other apparent need that wanting to tell someone her car smelled and this is why. Now, if her daughter was in there and if it smelled as bad as every one wants to think the end of June, she surely wouldn’t have been going out of her way to retrieve it, as JB has already said. It would make more sense to drive it into a swamp someone where and walk away, leave state, disappear forever. That would be a hint of premeditation, in my mind. But not what she did.
she is not zcg. the “c” was a misprint from the leasing office clerk.
I saw the C in state documents. I may have made mention of this in the Brackenwood article here.
Hi Val,
Thanks for stopping by. Actually, Caylee’s remains being in the most logical area is a big problem for me and I truly believe will be the most debated issue during trial. I’m not a forensic scientist but I’m sure any forensic scientist, given the choice of finding the child’s remains in Aug/Sept 08 as opposed to Dec 08 would be much more helpful in determining a conclusive date of death and more importantly cause. I think you would agree.
wow, thank you 😀 I was hoping someone knew. Makes more sense when I look at the call log.
TY
Zuben, I’ll get back with you on that. I’m just trying to see if there’s a connection between his calls to Casey and McK’s calls to Casey. There’s one time when his and McK’s were back to back.
You don’t have to chase the names very far to see that, for example, most of the “work” email addresses are real. I showed, I believe also in the Brackenwood thread, that there are myspaces registered with some of those email addresses. Early on I sent a couple of emails out to the addresses and they came back saying the account had been closed. LE tried very little to not at all, to trace any of them.
there is no reason to doubt our law enforcement. they have done an outstanding job!! i am not people to shift blame on the good men and women of law enforcement, like everybody so easily does. God Bless them!!!
Zuben, thanks for bringing up the clothing found at the burial sight. You’re right. They would have smelled of decomp. I wonder why the cadaver dogs didn’t pick up on that in Aug/Sept 08. hmm…
not if it is under water.
Wasn’t that before he had seen the evidence and talked to the defense team or Casey? The article you link was dated Dec. 12. A whole lot has been released since then. I would have to assume he based that statement on what the media had told him, the “leaks” given to media and the little bit that had been released at that time. His change tells me a lot. Would you think he would make a statement like he now has if he didn’t see good reason to change his mind?
you sure put alot of stock into criminal defense lawyers. lol. i’d be a betting person that you just about trust everything someone says.
I believe Masons words were…..FUN. He stated it would be FUN to try the case of a murdered 2 year old little girl.
Zuben, I live in Orlando and we have a high population of Mexican illegals. My husband is a construction supervisor and the border patrol actually cruises through new construction neighborhoods looking for illegals that work for subcontractors who ARE legal. Also, this area has a high migrant worker population, e.g. orange pickers, and in the Tampa area, vegetables, strawberries and tomatoes, etc. Apopka, a neighboring city is also the foliage capital of the world. I have plenty of Hispanic friends who I work with and you just assume everyone is legal until proven otherwise. In Florida, you just get used to it. Not a big deal.
JB: “This is where I am and that’s why I see things differently. What I see is Casey wasn’t that bad of a person. Annie D and lots of her other friends all say she was a good mother and very protective of Casey.”
BEES: But knowing how much of Casey’s time was spent texting and phoning how can anyone think she was a good mother? At least anyone who has ever raised a two-year old? It’s been my experience that motherhood (especially at that two-yr. old stage) is extremely demanding, no? Like how do you spend ten hours a day texting while raising your two year old? Neglect in the right amounts can be as damaging as physical abuse. Add to that, if her friends are telling the truth, she brought Caylee to the parties we’ve seen in the photos. Something most good mothers I know would avoid. Lastly, listen to her tone of voice with the 911 Operator as she describes her “missing” daughter. Good mother? Really?
~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ .
Venice: “YES, she did sign Amys name on one of them. I wasn’t even referring to that fraud. Forging bank statements and taking hold of anothers SSI is what I was referring to. Wow. and, she did not successfully commit fraud?”
BEES: Also would stealing from her grandparents constitute fraud or is it somehow more acceptable if it’s “kept in the family?”
~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ . ~ .
JB: “The finding of Caylee’s remains at the end of the block is very suspicious.”
BEES: I’ve always heard that the murdered child is usually dumped very close to home. Wrong information?
Definately not, or a prosecutor either. But I guess I’d have to respond to your question by asking what you think brought about his about face? Surely you don’t think he expects to end his professional career with a loss?
As for the fun comment, I understood him to say it will be fun to see Ashton fall on his butt. I hardly took that in context to mean the trail for the murder of a 2 year old is fun.
Sorry, in a hurry. Someone upthread was questioning whether Caylee had been dumped after Casey was in jail. It’s important to remember that investigators have established a time of death using the evidence provided by forensic botanists and entomologists.
Thanks, Sister. I knew that but my statement wasn’t about national origin, it was about being illegals. I suspected I was being baited to make a bigoted statement, which would never happen with me unless someone took my words and twisted them. Other people are here illegally too but, you are right, most are from the Spanish speaking countries. Actually, a town very near me used to be mostly migrant workers. Some of them became legal though, and eventually bought the farms they used to work.
Veronica,
I guess you’re not aware of what he did to me, but with that said, I’ll leave it at that. I will reinterate, there is no hypocrisy here.
Bees, I think there is a very good chance that the defense will make mincemeat out of the botany. There is no way that air potato would take 4 months or longer to grow roots that size, just no way. Also, did you notice this professional didn’t even bother to name the genus and species of what plant he was referring to? Each plant has it’s own rate of growth, as well as normal diameter of root. Of course, once the decompositon completed and settled there would be extra fertilizer to speed growth too.
Veronica,
Good point but there are dogs who are trained to find human cadavers under water. Why were they not used is beyond me. When Kronk is standing there looking at what he describes as a bobbing skull, (dome white thing) I find it miraculous that LE doesn’t come out in full blown force. If you go to youtube.com you can hear his interviews. I rather listen than read. It gives you a better feel of the person.
This is Part One.
David,
With all due respect to LE, I think they did an OK job on this particular case. It absolutely was not the “norm”. Initially they went out on a call that sounded more like a mother/daughter dispute with the clincher, “the car smells like a dead body”.
They arrive there, Cindy is hysterical. Casey is nonchalant. Lee is giggling (maybe) Wouldn’t they go immediately to the car? And if the car reeked so badly of decomp why would they hang around the house and ask questions without taking the car? They take the car the next day. They don’t separate the family members and then question them. They don’t go and pick up Tony Lazarro. He invites himself to an interview days later?? Too funny. Add all of the other mistakes to their inept investigation and this is what you get. Very much like what happened in JonBenet Ramsey’s case. People trampling all over possible evidence.
Marc Fuhmann wasn’t impressed with Orlando LE either.
I think they got it together a week later but it was too late. All of Casey’s friends had already compared notes and created a timeline. That’s not good police work in my opinion.
sounded off the wall to me. you can say no wrong, huh??
Zuben,
I agree the botanical evidence will play a major part and I’m thinking the defense is not sweating it at all. It’s the ace in the hole that Cheney likes, I do believe.
I think most readers understood what you were saying Zuben. You’re doing a great job not taking the bait. Ridicule, twisting of words, being put of the defensive….Is this where all the people from Topix wound up? The comments are sounding more like it all the time. This blog was posted as a pro Casey one there.
I am really enjoying the good discussion here and hope it doesn’t become the battleground of the week.
Bees,
I’m missing your point, sorry. Are you saying that “down the block” is the most likely burial ground?? Then does that make LE even more inept? Should they have not been there the next day? LE did search around the house and in the backyard. I guess that’s as close to home as they were going to get.
Gee, that’s great that you got a sensible interpretation out of his word. The word “fun” should have never been associated with this childs case, in ANY FORM of a meaning.
This blog is not for me. Chow.
I said nothing about being smart. I’m sure quite a few of us are, but it is those that are smart and objectionable which I have more admiration for. Like I said, no one so opinionated and closeminded will be on that jury. Thank God.
Creative. Unique. Not the same boring dribble so often repeated. Is that enough explanation for you?
I think you’re just out to argue with anything anyone you don’t like says now.
I’d like to hear my telephone “hello” analyzed! I wonder what people could tell about me……
I would like to hear your telephone “hello” , as well, to 911 after your 2 year old has just been kidnapped and held hostage for 31 days. I think you are just waiting for people to backlash, as you are a provoker.
Thanks for being honest.
You want to bet $$$$ on that?
she asked a simple question. You see sarcasm in that? Then, you have issues, noone else.
JB, Dave Shawn Jamie is a tripple personality poster, all using the same email. Perhaps he thinks he needs more power behind his accusations. But no worries. If he is saying he is the one that it takes to know one, then he can deal with his own hypocrisy, that isn’t my worry. If he means Casey is like me, then she is innocent of the crime accused of. I am not yet prepared to pass judgment on anything I don’t have full understanding of. So far we’ve only heard one side backed up by physical evidence that doesn’t connect Casey to her daughter’s body. Physical evidence is much more important than speculation and theory, which seems to be what the state is using so far, all based on the fact that Casey didn’t report her missing and lied to them.
I’ve tried to imagine under what circumstances I might behave like her. I tend to be a little naive in trusting people until they have proven they can’t be trusted. Sometimes the damage is already done. I wouldn’t change that about myself because it is based on the fact that I treat others the way I expect to be treated. I have become a better judge of character than when I was younger but that comes with age. If there was someone that Casey developed a relationship with lasting for that long, she might actually think her daughter was safe and would be returned.
We know, from what I found about the work emails, etc, that Thomas Franck is Frank McKeever. He has pages set up at myspace as both a comedian and rap entertainer. These emails appear to be about work with the purpose of planning and executing events that would fit with entertainment like he offers, but are said to be connected to Universal. It is quite possible that this master of illusion set up this fake email address (quite easy for scammers to do) and perhaps not quite legal business hiring people like Casey to work for him. Why haven’t we seen LE ask Rusciano what he knows about all this, by the way? His name was in the CC of that email too. People that are bad liars believe bad lies that could easily be uncovered. Her strange walk down the hall of Universal seemed to have a purpose because she stopped suddenly and told them she was lying. I think she was looking for his office. He may have contacted her after the buy out, merger or what ever it was and said he was the new Kodak-Colorvision or what ever would be believable. He might say they are expanding their events to include locations outside of Universal properties or what ever was needed to create a cover. That would explain where the money came from to cover her phone bill that ran 200-400/month plus all the other things she spent money on. There isn’t evidence shown so far that her parents paid those bills or supplied all her gas. George thought something was strange about her work but her mother noticed nothing and thought she had a job at Universal. Cindy watched over the money so she wouldn’t think that if she was paying for her phone, gas, etc. I haven’t seen anything to lead me to believe the whole credit card issue was anyone but George. The amount she took from her grandparents, long before Caylee went missing wasn’t that large an amount and wouldn’t cover all those phone bills. She had money coming from somewhere. Her activity seems to show her source of funding was cut off when Caylee went missing. She suddenly can’t even put gas in her car, let alone pay her phone bill. People that run illegal businesses would also deal in cash, whenever possible, no paper trail. They would hire people as contractors, not the usual employee too.
Zub, you said, “I see no evidence that Casey didn’t lover her daughter or take good care of her.” ~ ~ ~ CASEY, A GOOD MOTHER? The amount of time Casey spent texting, phoning friends (10 hours a day?) would seem to dispute that. How can you parent a two year old while spending that much time chatting with friends? It has been my experience that raising a two year old takes ALL of your time and energy. Neglect can be as abusive as physical abuse, in the right amounts. How was she being a good mother? Also, her friends have reported that she would bring Caylee to parties. We’ve seen pictures of Casey’s parties. Again, this is a good mother? Last but not least ~ forget the facts that I’ve just stated. Listen to Casey’s voice as she describes her daughter’s to the 911 operator. Is that the voice of a good mother?
You said Casey didn’t have a motive. I’m sorry to keep referencing Hinky here but she has done extensive research on this case and I trust her completely. Anyone looking for more motive than simply wanting the freedom from raising a child and a way to destroy her mother should read Val’s piece on eraser killers.
Also, about the fraud charges . . . was stealing from her grandparents fraudulent as well as the cheques she stole of Amy’s?
It was stated upthread that the fact Caylee was found so close to home was suspicious and you don’t believe Casey would have been that dumb. First of all I have always heard that mothers who kill their children do exactly that. They dump them close to home. Now I don’t have the time to look for backup data to prove that so it’s possible that’s just not true. Does anyone know?
If the point of this piece is to disregard the facts and paint Casey as innocent, then you must ignore whatever information that doesn’t “fit” with that scenario. If the point is to discuss the facts as we know them, then we must include all of them, right?
Common sense tells me that the last person to see Caylee alive was Casey. She was the only person connected to the car . . . the house, the tape, the blanket and on and on and on . . . to try and force a position of innocence in this case defies logic. There is literally so much evidence that I’m not going to take the time here to list it all ~ that has been done brilliantly on other blogs.
I can appreciate someone playing devil’s advocate, which I think is what you are doing, but in the end it is waaaaaay too far-fetched (for me at least) to believe that a conspiracy against Casey Anthony is being conducted by OCSO, FBI, Body Farm, The State of Florida etc. etc. Imo Casey is a sociopath. I don’t know if she has been evaluated yet or not but I do believe that once she has been there will be a very clear diagnosis of an eraser killer. Important to remember this is MY opinion. It’s fine that you all have yours too and I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind but let’s not sugar-coat reality at least.
Hi Bees. I am not attempting to paint a picture of her innocence at all and I have spent a good amount of time researching various things too, as well as reading everything that has been released. Did I say something that made you think that or that I haven’t? No, I am not trying to play devil’s advocate either and I am not ignoring any of the facts. Does it seem logical to you to say she had contact with the duct tape found with Caylee when there is no physical evidence at all that she did AND the state’s own witness said it did not come from the same source roll as that found in the Anthony’s home? That means, not only did it not come from the same roll, it didn’t come from the same manufacture lot because it has a different fabric content. Now, all the cotton didn’t just rot away. If it did the expert would have said it appears this is what happened and that the threads are thinner than they are supposed to be or else the inside or the twist wrap thread is missing. But he didn’t. You can also see from the pictures that the thread is pretty much intact, not unraveled, right thickness, etc. I know it is the popular opinion that the tape came from their home but I just don’t see how that is possible to say with the evidence and reports released thus far. Maybe they’ll come up with another expert that will agree with you and the hopeful and popular opinion but I doubt it. I don’t care about popular opinion. I base mine on what I see, read, and my common sense without excluding any facts that I am aware of. I don’t believe I am sugar coating anything. By the way, every parent leaves something to be desired, especially young mothers. I never said she was a perfect mother.
Now, if Casey thought Caylee was alive on July 15 would you still think she sounded strange? As for taking care of a 2 year old we have had more than the normal share of raising children. It depends on the nature of the children as to how high maintenance they are. Many children allow their parents to take care of them, carry out household duties and work from home at the same time. Did Caylee give you the impression she is a very high maintenance child? And don’t forget, quite a bit of the time Grandpa was around to help and many people are good at multitasking.
In reality, how can you know that Casey was the last person to see her alive, or even that George is the 2nd tho the last person. I’m sure there was someone outside on Hopespring drive that day that saw her ride past their house and maybe more. If she was left with someone, that person saw her after Casey. You have no way of knowing that and neither do I. Find me one piece of evidence that Casey had contact with Caylee shortly before her death or after and I’ll gladly adjust my opinion. So far, that evidence is just not there.
The fact that there there is direct evidence linking Casey to the death of her daughter and has not been released does not mean that it wont be released. It will be as will certain other critical items that the prosecution has not released to date. The evidence that the last person that Caylee had contact with was her mother is that the prosecution will have George testify to the fact that he saw Caylee leave with Casey during the day, and there is video tape and the direct evidence of Tony Lazzaro that Casey was with him in the late afternoon and all night. After that Caylee Antony was never seen by anyone credible again.
That is what the prosecution will show. Then its going to be up to the defense to give a credible scenario that someone else took Caylee in the interim. They cannot do that because it didnt happen and actually I dont believe they will even try.
You have to give a jury SOMETHING to dispute direct testimony from others. There isnt
a credible alternative for the defense – thats why they turned on Kronk – next they tried
to say Casey couldnt have put the body there. Again, is the jury going to believe it because
Baez et al says it? No they are not, you have to have credible witnesses, and tangible
evidence of the alternative. The defense has NOTHING. It doenst matter what a lawyer
says – it only matters what he can prove. They cannot prove that Zenaida existed – saying someone named Gloria owned a condo up the block means nothing. There is and was no Zenaida because you cannot prove to a jury that she existed. Saying it so doesnt make it so.
The circumstances that exist even now that we have read about are more than enough to convict her.
We obviously have different standards as to what constitutes a “good mother.” Your words, not mine. It’s possible we raised our children very differently. Or were ourselves raised differently. But, I think it is nice for you to believe the things you do. I don’t think you should change your nice opinions at all. A world where a mother will so chillingly erase their daughters life is not a nice world to be living in. It is much preferable to believe that a BHS did the murder (BHS = Bushy Haired Stranger), or an invisible nanny or George, maybe ~ whatever or whoever you conclude did the murder. Or, was it even a murder? Do we know for sure that Caylee was dead when they found her? Could she still be alive I wonder? Like, where’s the proof of that? How do we know those weren’t monkey bones they discovered? Seriously. I wouldn’t know the difference between monkey bones and human bones. Would you? At what point do we stop believing the evidence we are hearing? I guess if even 5% of what we hear is wrong then why not 100%. I respectfully hope you can stand tall beside your beliefs and never be threatened by them. It is what you are comfortable with and you are making sure that what you know about the case, or don’t know about the case, will support your theories, questions. That’s okay with me. Carry on, and have a good time with all that. Cheers!
I have skimmed JBs Blog for quite some time, as nobody seemed to carry a righteous attitude. It seems I was entirely wrong.
The insinuations and mental accusations, with ZERO credibility to support it, that Zuben portrays seems to fly just fine, while people who come to express their enlightenment now get monitored and eventually have their comments deleted.
I have a feeling that is why this blog somehow got targeted. I do in fact now recognize the double-standard and the representation of fairness and respect has been a farce!!
Artgirl, as I have said here, the state CANNOT withhold evidence. The law says they have to turn everything over promplty with means as soon as they get it. Even the most extensive testing should be done by now. It’s been 2 years since the car was impounded and a year and a half since Dec. 12, 08. There will be no smoking gun. What you see is what you get and the best they have will be strongly challenged, I’m sure. Anyone can be called to testify as to the last time they saw her. That doesn’t prove that Casey is the last person to see her alive beyond a reasonable doubt. It was night, not afternoon when she and TL were taped at Blockbuster. Many hours elapsed between leaving the house and going to Blockbuster. I don’t understand why you and so many others say ZG or GG don’t exist. I and others have proven they do exist. I supplied many links to credible sources when I wrote about them too. There are many people using both names. But regardless, the fact still stands that they don’t have what you say they do. Also, you and I have no idea what the defense has yet so how can you say they have nothing? Remember, there are still many depositions, a witness list, probably testing to do and a trial that has to take place before she can be found guilty.
Artgal, you said,
The factthat there there is direct evidence linking Casey to the death of her daughter and has not been released does not mean that it wont be released.
I’m sorry to keep calling you out on this, but it is not a FACT.
Beez, I’m disappointed. You are purposefully not even addressing my points and are, instead, trying to belittle me. Please give me the respect I give you. I hardly think a mother that makes a lot of phone call, texts, takes her daughter in tow most anywhere she goes equates to an eraser killer or murderer. Yes, I do know the difference between human and monkey bones, with the help of some reference materials. I haven’t stopped believing any of the evidence that has been presented. That is exactly what I base the statement, that they have a very weak case with nothing to connect Casey to the murder, on. Haven’t you noticed as time goes on, that both Ashton and Burdick sound and look much less confident. Burdick even stutters or stammers over her words now.
Zuben,
I’m more than comfortable with my belief. Are you?
Good evening,
One big problem I’m having with this case. Motive? Killing your child to go out and party is unbelievable and lame. Along with all of her other actions, doesn’t seem like she’s concern to me. She’s not even concerned with getting caught.
For me to believe that Casey is a sociopath/psychopath, I would have to read a complete psychological evaluation from a licensed psychologist that would indicate KC as a true psychopath/sociopath or have some delusional mental disease. So far, nothing has surfaced in docs, so I don’t understand why so many want to call their assessment of Casey FACT. That’s preposterous. I’ll assume the prosecution will produce something or maybe not but I find it hard to even touch on that subject, much less make a claim that it’s “fact” Your opinion, yes. And I have to agree Zuben, Ashton and Burdick both seem tired to me. Not too much pep in the step.
Yes, I am, JB. While I am open to hearing any new evidence, what I have seen so far I am quite confident about. I’d say even more so after watching Mason’s interview after the hearing today. Did you see it? http://www.wftv.com/video/23979291/index.html I’m understanding him to say that the searchers that are claiming the are couldn’t be searched because it was under water weren’t even looking in the right spot and those that did search that exact area know it was not flooded and she wasn’t there at that time. That seems to be their key defense as far as how and when Caylee got there. I know JJ is trying to retract his statement but I’ve seen his map, his notes and his email. He was very sure. Like so many others, I suspect he has the preconceived notion that she is guilty, didn’t realize what he knew might help Casey and he didn’t want to do that. So, he does an about face, turning his back on his original very detailed notes and map. I suspect there is mlde than JJ too, that they will call. But I hope the defense doesn’t stop there. It isn’t enough to show Casey coudln’t have put her there or that she is innocent. I want to know who did and who killed her. If LE won’t do it I want them to, for Caylee’s and her family’s sake.
I got a kick out of the passer by during the interview. Twice he said Casey is innocent. Mason turned and said, “Wait a minute. You didn’t get paid?”, then laughed.
You are right to chide me, Zub. No disrespect intended. At least you’re thinking about it and questioning some of it, and that’s all good. I must say though that I find the notion of Casey’s innocence defies logic. In my opinion. I of course recognize your right to your own and do not mean to belittle you. but I just can’t summon the seriousness I’m sure you must want to debate or discuss your theories. You deserve to be debated respectfully so I will leave peacefully.
I would like to preface this comment with this……I do not know nearly all the ins and outs of this case as you all do. I cannot quote transcript, page or line number. I have not researched GG, ZG, George, Cindy or any other clown involved in this circus. Now to my comment, JB or Zub, knowing you don’t think Casey is a socio/psychopath, do you think it is at all possible that she just “snapped” for whatever reason (fight with Cindy, boyfriend wants boys, or whatever the current thinking is) and killed Caylee? Lots of people kill without being socio/psychopaths and lots of people kill for no good reason. I don’t agree with your theories, but you do provide food for thought. I also wonder, if Casey didn’t do it, who did and why? You must have theories based on your research.
about Casey having options?
this statement made during a jail visit seemed revealing to me. it appears to have sprung nonsequitar from a longterm ongoing inner dialogue..referencing not only that specific moment trapped in jail but a ‘bigger picture’.
the passion infused into this statement sounds like a familiar internal litany of despair, an oft repeated negative daisy chain of thought that predates Casey’s incarceration.
she is not referring to ‘home’ and ‘you guys’ nor her daughter..what she is longing for so desperately is la bella vita.
i think it shows that Casey thought she was indeed out of options. that is how she justifies murdering Caylee..she had no choice and she was forced to do it. she would even say she did not want to do it, but alas, there simply was no alternative.
CASEY ANTHONY: God, I just want to go home! Every day I wake up, I`m just hoping and praying that I get to go home. I just want to be with you guys. I just want to help find her because I feel a little hopeless. I feel a little helpless here. I mean, honestly, not really hopeless, but more helpless because I can`t do anything from where I`m at.
Zuben,
It’s not triple, it’s more like quadruple. Somebody needs to go to the library.
Zuben, I was thinking along the same lines. Where was she getting all the money for the cell phone bills, the gas. Soon after she abandoned the car she paid an online $574 cell phone bill. I doubt she was paying out of Cindy’s account, so she must have had her own account. According to Val’s time line, she paid $950 in cell phone bills within a 3 week period. As I mentioned in a comment earlier, she had stolen a little over $400 from her grandparent and then another $400 in cash from Amy. And she attempted to pay the $574 bill when she went to BOA to cash one of Amy’s checks, but there wasn’t enough $ left in the account. She does pay the bill online later the same day. Regardless of the stolen money, she makes sure the cell phone bill gets paid, even if she has to steal for it.
Hi EDRN,
Yes, I’m with you on the theories and speculations as to why and how. That’s what makes this case so baffling. When you just add in the family dynamics, it wouldn’t be hard to create a theory within the Anthony’s themselves. Adding the fact that GA is an XHomicide detective. What would he do to help his family in a crisis? It wouldn’t be a stretch to think it was an accident cover up, all gone wrong. If you read my article Blabber Mouth George, I gave that theory some thought too.
I have a strong feeling that whatever happened, we haven’t heard it yet. Please feel free to jump in anytime with your thoughts.
As you know, all theories are welcomed.
Zuben, what do you think of the searches someone did for escorts? I also was looking at the entry regarding missing kids that was discussed in the media. This was what I found in the Internet Archive. What is your take on this?
http://web.archive.org/web/*sr_1nr_30/http://missinkids.com/*
This is an old discussion that might make more sense with current information.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:2Tx2q3fkxiUJ:www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D72041%26page%3D5+%22missinfkids%22&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
Bees,
Zuben has done her homework and for that she needs respect, just like everyone who has already formed their opinion that Casey is guilty. When you use words that reference logic it could be taken that you think Zuben is not logical. I differ with you. If you take time to read her responses you can see her rationale. It is possible. As you know, I’m not on board with the masses either. That’s why I created this blog so we can present our theories and thoughts freely.
TY,
JB
I couldn’t have said it better! Great comment Zuben.
Thank you Bees, but I don’t want you to leave. I only want you to give my words the same consideration you give your own thoughts, as I do yours. Your sense of logic is telling you that a woman can’t be a good mother and seem to be coming to the conclusion that because of this she is a murderer. My point is that doing those things doesn’t prove she is a murderer. The judgment, “bad mother” is a matter of opinion, where as “guilty” is either fact or falicy, not opinion.
Thanks, JB
Hi Sister Blister,
Check out this video. This was a LE set-up to catch Lee in a lie or see what he really knows. Tony Lazarro agreed to do it. There’s actually 5 parts. This is part 5. There’s a segment where Lee mentions a drug rip-off that Casey was possibly involved in. There’s also mention of a Wachovia account that Casey was supposed to have had. This may help answer your question, where’d she get the money.
Hi Renee. I need to get off right now but I want to look at this. I do know that some of the escort searches were during Geotge’s time home so could have been him but I have seriously thought about the possibility that is where she was getting her money. She spent much time within the 3 home towers and there are many hotels in that same triangle. That sounds like a Universal event to me, LOL. I’ll try to look at these links tomarrow.
this will be FUN.
No not at all. If it seems like I’m saying Casey is a bad mother and therefore murdered Caylee then I am failing miserably in my communication. Of course bad mothers do not turn into murderers. But mothers who murder ARE bad mothers, no? If I ignored all evidence, opinions, hearsay about Casey Anthony’s strengths or weaknesses as a mother and based a decision on all of the remaining evidence, opinions, hearsay, I would still believe she murdered her daughter.
Also, please be assured that I did read your comments and I will go and read them again. I am not a close-minded person despite what you may think. I love and encourage thinking outside the box but I simply haven’t heard anything here or “out there” that makes me question Casey’s guilt. Convince me.
Thanks Zuben,
For the link. Mason seems pretty confident and I totally agree with his statement, “George didn’t call 911” Wow. I’ve said it before, if the odor was so obviously human decomp how and why would Cindy and George just go on in to work? Logic tells me, George would have called ASAP. That would make sense.
Yes, I think the botany evidence and TES testimony is the key. Should be interesting.
Fair enough Bees,
I don’t think you’re closed minded, you’re are entitled to your own opinion. No problem.
And this is why 5 different people are in moderation, all using the same IP address. It has nothing to do with your comments.
OK. After my second read, this is what I took from it.
You said, “In my opinion, this case of a missing child was not treated as such. It was never investigated as such.” ~ . ~ . ~ . . . Sorry. I am not understanding you. Why would LE treat it as a MISSING child case once they recognized it as a MURDER case?
“The state of Florida has gone “all in” on Casey.” That’s true. I believe if Caylee would have had EVEN ONE family member stick up for her there would not have been the huge outpouring of anger against this family. Definately from the public and possibly from the State. It is GALLING that NOT ONE ANTHONY has stood with Caylee. Not one of them even searched for her yet Cindy had the nerve to tell the country to get off their asses and find her granddaughter.
As far as Richard Grund stating Casey told him her new babysitter’s name was Zenaida Gonzalez, my own personal opinion is he’s remembering wrong. I base that opinion on my own memory. If even my own sister, never mind my son’s girlfriend, told me the name of a babysitter there is almost certainly NO WAY I would remember that name two years later. No way! It’s the same as George remembering a month later exactly what Casey and Caylee were wearing. Uh-uh!!! I don’t buy it.
And finally you said, “when you put “child murdered” and “mother” in the same sentence, I’m looking for a smoking gun, a confession, something conclusive, beyond a doubt evidence” ~ . ~ . ~ . . . With all respect are you familiar with the case of Diane Downs?
Twenty-five years later and she says she is innocent.
I hope I’ve responded to all your points and I do thank you for providing them as a different opinion.
I wanted to mention that even though I am firmly convinced they have the murderer where she belongs, there are definately areas of confusion for me, but I’m also of the belief that the State is going to be able to address those areas once the trial begins. Someone upthread said they felt the State was looking less confident with each hearing. I have to say I don’t feel that way at all. Any hesitation that I hear in Linda DB’s voice I interpret as mild disbelief that she finds herself saying what she must about the Defense. In my opinion the State looks quite confident.
Fascinating videos. I hadn’t seen any of these…I couldn’t stop at just one LOL. Even TL mentions the money and how KC said she had saved up around $15k. He asked Lee where it was coming from and that’s when they discussed KC possibly have access to some pot. TL said he just thought she was making really good money at Universal. Hmmmmmmm
Well Bees,
That’s why God made us all different. I think we would bore him if we were all the same.
Yes, I remember the Diane Downs case. Ann Rule author of “Small Sacrifices” did a great job as always. I think I’ve read most of her books.
I’m sorry, I just don’t see the link between Anthony and Downs. Downs, IIRC shot 3 of her children and at least one of them survived, maybe two. I know it’s been on television before, just haven’t given it much thought lately. I think it was the prosecutor who later adopted them??
Anyway, In her case, I feel she’s where she belongs and is lucky she didn’t get the DP. Since we have no cause of death in the Anthony case accept death by homicide due to the circumstances. Diane’s poor children were shot, cause of death wasn’t a mystery. So I really don’t see the correlation. Casey’s trial will be totally different, I’m sure you’ll agree. Besides Diane Downs was convicted. We don’t know about Casey Anthony yet. Just another point I’d like to make.
Yes, I said that. I’m not impressed with Linda DB or Ashton. At first they seemed like firecrackers but lately I see them dragging their feet. You know, not too snappy.
Yes, I bet the SAO’s are getting tired of having to work for this conviction. I’m glad the defense team isn’t going to hand it over to them. Yes, the prosecution will have to work, as well they should for all DP cases. I wouldn’t want it any other way, would you?
People that are successful at fraud don’t write checks to themselves and don’t stand in front of surveillance cameras to cash them. The same with stealing from the grandparents. She did it all in a way that is sure to be found out. She admitted them all. She failed miserable at committing fraud. That was the point I was attempting to make.
Obviously, I suspect any of us would feel the same, locked behind bars. She is simply saying she is helpless to do anything because they have her in jail. I watched all those videos too and I could see her demeanor change as time went on. She appears to me to really think her daughter would come home in the beginning. She obviously was deluding herself but I can’t say she must have been a good liar because she obviously is the worst liar I could imagine. If people would imagine for just a moment, that she may have thought Caylee was with someone that would give her back, that would explain her tone and words in the beginning. It may have taken her family’s panic and the passing of her birthday for reality to begin to kick in. It is also my observation that people that are bad liars also have a distorted sense of reality and are gullible.
Sister, I might be remembering wrong but I believe the grandparent’s money was way before Amy’s checks and before Father’s day. They had already confronted Casey about that before the Father’s day visit to the nursing home. Correct me if I’m wrong, though. I think people are looking for a motive for a big blow up where they are saying Cindy choked Casey, which isn’t an established fact at this point. All we really know is Casey yelled at her mother outside the house, got in her car and left sometime near June 15. But even the date isn’t clear according to the witness, is it?
Thank you. I’m starting to wonder too. If everyone could realize that most of us want the same thing, Justice for Caylee, I think we can be respectful to each other here. Those that attack have a different agenda. One of the most fascinating things about this case is the public behavior over the preconceived notion that the accused is guilty before the facts are in. Even the media is doing it, for the most part. Anything said that might cast doubt on that is treated as threatening, provoking emotions that could be described as extreme as rage sometimes, against the person trying to balance the other side of the scales so all the facts are included.
One thing I’ve thought about many times when reading very biased and unbalanced posts about this case, is what Caylee must feel, watching us, if her mother is innocent. The majority of the public and media has demonized her whole family but yet say she is a precious little angel. How can a demon give birth to an angel, avoiding any religious dogma or creed, please? She would have to be at least half demon and Caylee would perceive people’s attitude the same way. Unfortunately, her “angel” parent didn’t even acknowledge her. How would all of this leave her feeling about herself?
I dont wish to push this point further, but there is discovery that has not been released
yet. It will be released in due time. That is a fact. Regard ZG Im sure there are many of them in the world. There is no ZG who took care of Caylee and somehow was given to her to take care of by Casey or was stolen from Casey. In two years all I have ever seen are these vague references to people with similar or the same names who have absolutely nothing to do with this case. It is your premise then that a woman can leave a home with her child
and show up hours later unperturbed and rent videos with her boyfriend, go out an party and never say one word as to where her child is? Further she never reported her child missing, had decomposition in her car, never help the police one iota to lift a hand with a credible story of where and with whom her child was with and you still believe she was not involved with the death of her child? WHY? Who acts like that? If you hold to a kidnapping theory then this is not a normal reaction even at first if she was trying to protect the child
after the child turned up dead why not talk? If Caylee was given to someone else was that
a permanent thing that she planned to rid herself of Caylee? If then the child turned up dead, again why didnt Casey talk? Once more I say, you have no credible scenario except to say “she didnt do it” so basically that is your premise? Just as you cant provide a credible scenario, the defense as well cannot provide one – thats why the scrutiny on Kronk – they are scrambling for one. They will attack the forensics, but thats not going to work. Juries
eyes start to glaze over when you get too technical – they are not lawyers and scientists
they need a credible reason to find reasonable doubt. Motive does not have to be shown
and frankly I see many motives for Casey to get rid of Caylee. I also dont think she was a good mother at all. I was a mother at the same age as Casey and I see an irresponsbile spoiled brat who told her mother it was a huge waste to talk to her when her mother had the nerve to question her about what happened to her granddaughter when all Casey wanted was to talk to her boyfriend. Again I say who does that? Are we now to have a bunch of mothers or fathers to take a child one day and come back empty handed with no excuse whatsoever as to where the child is? Is this now acceptable? I dont think so.
Casey Anthony is a lying deceitful murderess, and if you dont see Diane Downs in her maybe you can see Susan Smith, or even Scott Peterson. None of them had ever committed
a crime previously either – but they all murdered a loved one because that one got in their way, it happens every day. Mothers and Fathers kill their children every day. It is no way a rare phenomenon. Unfortunately its quite common.
Artgal16, I’m sorry but you seemed to start every comment with the same claim. The discovery hasn’t been released yet. When you state this, I don’t care to read anymore of your comment. For a person who only wants to rely on facts as you claim, I don’t understand why you would add this point when it’s not a fact it’s what you are hoping. Personally, it makes your comment seem inane to me. Can you please provide the article or link you are referring to or why you feel this information is being withheld.
TY,
JB
the quote below is from wftv’s website its just a snippet of the whole article however,
please note the last line about evidence that has not been in released but will be in the next few weeks. I have provided the source below as well
“Casey Anthony will have to appear at the next court hearing. Both sides will be back in court on July 15. They will once again discuss Cindy’s 911 call and records from the group Texas EquuSearch; volunteers from EquuSearch helped to look for Caylee shortly after she was reported missing.
Also, more evidence is expected to be released in the next few weeks. ”
source:
http://www.wftv.com/news/23924161/detail.html
artgal, at the risk of sounding like a mindless drone with no thoughts of my own I want to say I agreed with everything you said. And I too would be more than fascinated to hear alternative theories about Caylee’s murderer but it’s frustrating because like you say, somebody will make the claim that Casey may not have killed her daughter but have absolutely nothing to back that up with. You simply can’t debate an issue if one side has nothing. It has about as much value as me saying I believe that Cindy Anthony is a polygamist. I’m sure the first question that would arise would be, “What makes you say that?” If I was only going on intuition I’d have an awful time convincing anyone I was right. Like you, I know we haven’t seen all the evidence yet. There will also be a lot revealed in depostions we’ve yet to hear or have yet to be given. In my opinion the defense looks worse and worse with each hearing. If Linda DB seems tired, that’s completely understandable to me. I think working with that particular Defensive Dream Team would drain me too!!!
Ok, Renee, I had a chance to look at this but I’m not bringing up the same thing with the missinfkids link. But I went back to the early docs looking for what they had released at that time, concerning the computer forensics and read it with new eyes, having so much more research done and later documents to read them through now. But, I got sent in a different direction that you intended, I think, which often happens when I am researching. Some names jump out at me know that I didn’t notice back then. Referring to http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0926/17564976.pdf the last page shows a fragment of message with a name not mentioned elsewhere that I know of, Ray, connected to fusion. This is the bobby account on the laptop, conversation took place on July 13.
On doc pag 2801 released somewhere around 4/7/09 there is a partial email found in unallocated clusters on the HP home computer, coming from the deleted Firefox history, I believe. It is from her yahoo mail account. The author of this email, sounding like the boss or supervisor is Cheryl Davis, VP East Coast Marketing/Sales. She had to make a trip to Tampa to complete a workshop and would be back in town the next day. There are a lot of new people he looks forward to meeting and it sounds like this email went out to all involved. He is making keys for them to make things easier. Battle of the Bands, first week of June, 35 signed so far. He’s looking for more volunteers and/or part time help. Dress attire is similar to the other work emails released that LE say are all made up. The names that jump out at me now are…
Gabe & Mike who did some promotions
Tony, whom the author says he will be checking in with periodically. So here there is a connection between Gabe, in the work email and Tony, assuming it is TL
LifeHouse band- Sometime around April 11 they had gigs in both Tampa and Orlando, one of the local being at Q Rock Radio station.. See http://everythinglifehouse.com/gallery/index.php?cat=29&page=4 I love their music. Here’s a video: http://new.music.yahoo.com/lifehouse/videos/view/broken–201549211 did a large tour with Matt Nathason that ended in Orlando, April 16, 08 at Hard Rock Live, also listed here: http://www.woodstock.com/concerts/lifehouse/st/0/page/8/
Casey is in charge of the VIP reservations
Justine is connected to back stage productions.
Manuel
Juliette, Bonnie and Hector are floaters, meaning they will work on a buddy system with others to learn or teach the ropes.
This is the first time I noticed the name Hector and wouldn’t even have noticed it if it wasn’t for my Gloria/Zeniada research. But also notice that none of these emails made it in to the final computer forensic report because they didn’t want to investigate these emails or admit Casey may have actually been working somewhere. Also notice that this connects this work to Tony as early as April 2008. The email from Thomas Franck is dated May 14 and says there is an event that night. NBC called in a favor. The Lifehouse event was 2 days later.
Now, if there is only one band named Lighthouse that performed in Orlando during that time frame, I think this validates some things that Casey said. Maybe there isn’t an East Coast division of THE Universal but there is at the very least, someone that is either posing as them or has named their business similar in order to draw from their reputation. That is who should be investigated, in order to clarify exactly what Casey had been doing with her time and who she knew through these connections.
ZubenElSchemali, i don’t think you understood a single word i wrote. no, it was not a simple statement. Casey does not make simple statements, they are riddles and lies piled upon more riddles and lies.
your 2 second assessment of my post really bummed me out..don’t bother responding again, it is clear to me that you are going to take the shallow road, the one that explains everything so that Casey is “just like you or me”…what a waste this was in the first place for me to suggest there is something deeper, more sinister and subconscious going on here. hello? Casey is not “just like you or i”. she is a sicko b*tch who was chasing la bella vita and yes, JB short and sweet, her kid got in the way of that all-consuming goal. point set match..bye bye!
JB is Zuben your mod? because hey, no one can get a word in edgewise without a rapid and very superfluous response. Sorry Zuben, but life has many layers, your response was so superficial and non thought-provoking, i won’t be wasting my time posting here again.
Zuben,
Very interesting. What’s most interesting to me, is that you’ve possibly found the answer to one of my early questions. How did Casey find Tony before he came to Orlando to go to school. I read they met online in April 08. Well, he’s a promoter for Fusion Nightclub and maybe he found her through a site for “event planners”. This could be the connection. TY.
Cool Artgal16,
Thank you very much. We’re all looking forward to it.
JB, if the Tony mentioned in the email fragment on the Anthony computer is Tony, they worked together for this event planner named Universal. That would be how they actually met, I would assume. Tony and Hector are the names that jumped out and hit me in the face as I reread that page in the docs. Yes, it could be a different Tony but, he is majoring in a career that would be used for this type of thing and we already know he was doing this sort of work at Fusion as well as having Casey involved there, organizing the shot girls. and he had the nerve to be upset that she used his tab. He must expect a lot for nothing, wouldn’t you say? I’ll bet she at least got some money from Thomas Franck, LOL
PS: I just looked up Hard Rock Live in Oranldo. It’s owned by Universal. WHAT???
Hi Celeste, I’ll give it my best. For every speculative question, there’s a speculative answer.
1. You’ve stated you would have called immediately. That’s speculative because you don’t know when exactly Caylee was missing. The date is debatable.
2. Again, how do you know she didn’t have a job of some kind? I feel strongly she did, maybe not a legal one, granted.
3. Again, I don’t consider it a fact that she didn’t have a job.
4. Answer question with a question. Why doesn’t George call 911 immediately when he retrieved the car at Amscot. Both he and Cindy went on to work.
5. The only conclusive finding in the trunk was the hair w/death band. One hair is not usually enough to make a true forensic finding. The decomp will be debated at trial. IMO, even if Caylee was once in the car, it’s still not proof of who put her there.
6. Video says Casey wasn’t there? I don’t think video is 100% accurate. How does Casey know a ZG would be there?
7. Casey said this to Leonard Padilla, correct? What else do you believe coming from Leonard Padilla?
8. I’m finding more evidence that substantiates she wasn’t lying about everything. I feel she wasn’t forthcoming to LE because she was semi-covering for certain people whom she didn’t want to involve.
9. Wishful thinking maybe?? Maybe she’s thinking Caylee is alive therefore he won’t find a body. By this time, she wasn’t LP’s fan and I doubt she’d want him to be the person to find Caylee. LP was solely seeking media attention.
10. It’s not Casey’s family or her defense team’s job to find a kidnapper/murderer, right? They are not LE.
11. These were jailhouse letters. I wouldn’t put too much stock into anything they’ve written. You do know it was a sting set-up by LE right?
12. I read in documents, Casey always carried a bag with Caylee’s things everywhere she went. Any of these articles of clothing could have been what a babysitter would have in their possession. It proves nothing.
13. To my satisfaction, Casey is still hoping Caylee is safe.
14. Reading from part of your question, you include “did nothing wrong”. That I’m not sure of. And it’s not proven that everything she stated was a lie.
This is my view point. I’d like to add, I’m not all about Casey being innocent. I just don’t think the State has it right. Hopefully at trial we’ll find out what the real facts are when it really doesn’t matter what the general public thinks. Me included. 😀
Please be careful how much of the quoted information there you believe. They write, ““That’s when Caylee was missing. We don’t know when she disappeared,” Mason replied.” giving it it’s own paragraph. The problem is, The only quote by mason there is “We don’t know when she disappeared.” The rest of it is Kathy Belich talking over him as he tries to answer her question. He did tell her she should go to law school so she woudln’t have so many questions but I think it is jumping the guy to included her statement as if she is attorney Cheney Mason, LOL
Dear Celeste 2392
Those are excellent questions. I think if you asked those questions to the prosecution
they could answer everyone. For instance number 1 She didnt report her missing
because she killed Caylee. Number 2. She lied to the police because she was frantically trying to buy time to formulate a story that she could pass off as the truth. I guess she thought the police would just take her word for what she said! 3. She was stealing money for a long time and that is easily provable, her own grandmother wanted to have her arrested. She could not pay a nanny as she had no job, she used the money she stole to pay for gas and for her cell phone and her other entertainments. Everything Caylee needed Cindy paid for. 4. Cindys cell phone call will be ruled an excited utterance even though the defense is tring to get it thrown out. Cindy is a nurse, she knows what a dead body smells like. She cried out with the truth in desperation after Casey lied about Caylee being “taken”. 5. Human decomp shows in the car because Caylees body was in Casey’s car – and no one had access to her car but Casey – she admitted that she left the car at Amscot and thats where it was found. 7. Casey changed her story to Caylee being taken at Blanchard Park because she wanted to direct suspicion away from where the body was buried and might be discovered. She wanted the water to be the focus of a search rather than the woods.
8. Lying is Casey’s second nature – thats what she does. She is an extremely inventive liar but everything she said was proven to be a lie. Why do sociopaths lie the way they do
when in many instances it can easily disproved? Because there are lot of gullible people out there in believe them in many cases – its a pattern with them. 9. The finding of Caylees
body caused a physical reaction she could not control thus her hyperventilating at the discovery at the woods and her knowledge that no body was at the lake caused her to laugh. 10. Like OJ who spent his time looking for Nicole’s “killer” he only had to look in the mirror. Casey and the Anthonys are all aware that she killed Caylee, this is a huge hole in the stories over time that they make up. They really have never once looked into a camera and stated that they would spend heaven and earth to find the “real killer” of Caylee. Not even the Anthonys have the stomach for that. 11. Casey’s letter to her fellow jail mate was interesting, I felt after reading those letters that Casey is mentally not all there. Because she had never disputed that she was with Caylee when whatever happened to her happened,
but to write Zanny didnt do anything to Caylee, is very bizarre because she is then ackowledging that she knows what happened to Caylee. 12. The defense will make the case
easily that the things found with Caylee’s body came from the Anthonys home, including her winnie the pooh blanket from her own bed. This evidence is extremely damning. 13. Casey went clubbing because she was free of Caylee, Cindy and George – she wanted a new life with Tony Lazzaro, the boyfriend that wanted “only boy children”. How happy and carefree she was and it showed. 14. Casey lies because she cannot tell the truth its that simple. She has everything to hide, nothing in her life can stand the light of day. The more that light shown on her, the more her lies were exposed. Shes caught now in her web of lies – they will hang her. Those are the prosecutions contentions – Id really like to read a comprehensive answer to each one from the side of the defense, or someone who truly believes they can give us credible answers to alternatives answers that make sense – not just say – you cant prove it!
I have never said I think Casey is innocent. At this point, I can’t know because all the facts aren’t in yet. I have already answered most of these points elsewhere in this forum and wrote quite an extensive couple of posts at Aunt Dee Dee’s, so I won’t go over all that again. JB made quite a few good points. But I’d like to say that we don’t even know how the hair appeared to the FBI person because all they said was sign of decomp. The death band came from an LE leak or else the media just made it up. Correct me if I’m wrong because that would mean I’ve missed some of the discovery released. The agent said there would need to be more than one hair like that found to show it isn’t just an anomaly which tells me it isn’t a sure thing, what ever it is.
While I can’t yet say that I believe Casey is innocent for sure, I can say that with the evidence released thus far, there is no way they should be charging her with 1st degree murder and going for the death penalty. I absolutely don’t believe she killed her to be free of her so she could party. She proved that by taking her with her to at least one party and enjoyed a lot of social time with her and other friends.
Artgal16,
I see you and Celeste are agreeing with 85% of the blogging population. That’s no a problem for me. I’ve read thousands of posts exactly like yours so you already know you’re not alone.
I think you are surprised that there are answers to Celeste’s questions which she addressed to me. Zuben has also surprised many with her extensive research which should provoke some thought.
I wonder if you’d consider reading them and respectfully respond to my answers too.
TIA
obviously_me
I’d like to answer your question here. No Zuben is not my moderator. I think you’re just surprised someone actually responds to your questions with a fact-based answer and sometimes with her own impression of Casey which doesn’t agree with yours. There’s nothing wrong with that, right? This is a discussion that is open to both sides. I welcome anyone who in past experience, feared being heard because of the negative feedback. Not everyone wants to have to justify their personal opinion if it differs from the majority of the comments. Not everyone is argumentive by nature. Here anyone can do this is a respectful manner. I hope you’re able to understand my objective.
TY,
JB
Celeste, could you please tell me where you got the death band from in the documents. I’ve never read anything like that, whatsoever. If you are going to approach something logically you have to have something factuall to base it on. That is a Nancy Grace myth as far as I can see. The report only said there was apparent sign of decomposition. There are many changes in hair after death. Even the FBI person said more hair would help be more positive that it was, in fact, signs of death.
Caylee wasn’t missing until Casey no longer knew where she was. We don’t know exactly when that was. Just because Tony didn’t see her doesn’t mean she was missing yet. I think it is safe to say June 16 is the last time Casey saw her daughter alive and perhaps last time ever, and assume that is a fact. But even then, we can’t know for sure yet.
You say it is a fact that she lied about working for universal but we can’t really know that for a fact. She may have worked for a company called universal, whether a scam or legit. The emails are dated before Caylee went missing so that is evidence contradicting what you say. Le states they were all fake addresses but I’ve proven they are not. These email addresses were used before Caylee went missing. I’ve shown myspaces created using them. Now, you might say Casey masqueraded as all these people to make it look like she was working. Well, if that were the case, logic tells me LE would be all over that because they have to prove premeditation, that she is capable of acting in a cold and calculated way to get what she wants, in order to succeed with murder 1.
You’re stating that it is a fact that Caylee was inside the trunk. I think you will be disappointed come trial time. I highly doubt they will prove there was a human body in the trunk. I hope the body farm will give up their long list of gasses just so we can see this debated by the experts. Otherwise, the state can’t even use it. Now, as I said, if they ever test the stomach of the bugs in the trash maybe they can find human DNA to show there was a human in the trunk. If that is the case I will change my mine. But at this point they haven’t come close to convincing me. They have accomplished their objective though, influencing the court of public opinion, with the help of Nancy Grace and other fine “reporters”. But they can’t convince me because I’ve read the docs myself and done some research.
Didn’t Casey mention something about Hard Rock? I’m going to check it out too. Thanks
Artnut16,
I went to the link you provided and I didn’t find anything pertaining to “new evidence that has not been released” Could you possibly cut and paste the paragraph you wanted me to read.
TIA,
JB
Celeste, unless there were two forensic reports about the 1 hair, there is nothing about a death band. Have you read this for yourself? I’ve even read the emails from FBI about it too. Please see page 2504 of the documents for the report. I would C&P it here but it is a pdf and I can’t paste an image. The words used are “specimine Q12 exhibits characteristics of apparent decomposition at the proximal root end”.
You are absolutely incorrect about the dates of the work emails. You might like to read the docs. Apparently she didn’t work through the normal channels at Universal, but remember, when she was on maternity leave there was a change over. Someone could easily trick her into thinking this company was a legit part of the Universal she worked for. It is my opinion, based on what took place at Universal that day that she thought someone had an office down that hall. When she reached that location and saw that wasn’t true, she abruptly stopped and told them she lied and didn’t work there. Perhaps that is when she found out she’d been scammed, or maybe not. But I am convinced she was looking for someone down that particular hallway.
JB, I’d like to share an impossible mission for a moment because it seems to be the dominant factor in this case. So much of the time a rumor, theory or 2nd hand opinion stated as fact becomes, to some, worth fighting over to the bitter end. I’m not saying that is the case with the fine posters here but I just read something worth sharing that I see all too often.
There is a certain self proclaimed journalist/blogger that, instead of getting it direct from the horses mouth by listening to the 5 minute video himself, he cut and pasted the same incorrect quote from WFTV, I cut and pasted above then wrote a whole article on this incorrect and false statement. Everyone is just singing his praises for all of his misguided opinions and because of his assessment that the defense is contradicting themselves with this statement. Cheney Mason never said Caylee was there since June. Kathy Belich said that. Mason said they just don’t know when she was put there but they have evidence that she wasn’t there when certain people searched there. But now that particular group of people will swear Mason said that, even though he didn’t. Many have taken Nancy Grace’s word and she doesn’t just about this much credible research or less. Many have even taken the word of a commenter rather than reading the docs for themselves and coming to their own rational conclusion based on what is in the docs.
As long as this is the standard that the majority are using to form their opinions I don’t think there will ever be justice in the minds of most because their judgment is not based on fact. I just pray there are 12 jurors acting like hermits with no television or internet for a 3 year period so we can get a fair jury.
I haven’t read the c&P but I’ll take your word for it. I heard nothing from Mason that was contrary. I’m thinking Cheney Mason is shocked to see how WFTV chooses his words.
Yes, 12 jurors in Florida who aren’t familiar with this case and possibly haven’t already formed an opinion? Now that’s a mission. 😀
Good luck Florida.
Artgal16,
In response to 4) “Cindy is a nurse, she knows what a dead body smells like. ”
If Cindy worked in a morgue, where decomposed bodies are frequently brought in, then I would agree. However, most nurses work in health care facilities, e.g. hospitals, doctor’s offices, nursing homes, walk-in clinics etc. where if someone passes away or dies in some traumatic fashion while under the care of a physician, there is no smell of decomposition. Once a person is pronounced dead (by a doctor), the body is either released to the medical examiner (if there is undetermined cause or a violent death) or in the case of a person with a primary care physician (PMD) and a history of medical illness AND the PMD is willing to sign the death certificate, the body is taken to the hospital morgue (refrigerated) until the funeral home comes to pick the body up. Everything happens very quickly and the body isn’t around long enough to begin decomposing. I can guarantee this statement, as I am a Level I Emergency/Trauma RN with 27yrs of hands on experience.
Now, I can tell you that as a child, I poked a stick at a dead o’possum who was decomposing on the side of the road, and the stench is terrible. You don’t really forget it. But as a nurse, I’ve never smelled decomposition in a hospital or health care setting. Maybe Cindy poked a ‘possum too, but I doubt that just because she’s a nurse she ever smelled decomp on a dead body where she worked.
Zuben, deep breathe. If common sense convicts someone to death, then I think I am happy to have some uncommon sense and a questioning mind. It’s nice to know that there are other people who can think for themselves and don’t believe everything they read or hear in the news. With people llke Nancy Grace (and self-proclaimed journalist/bloggers), I’m not sure why we even need a justice system. My uncommon sense tells me that Kathi Belich gets paid to shove that microphone in peoples faces and ask the questions that she does. And WFTV is more than happy to continue paying her as long as she can produce and increase their ratings ($$$). Don’t let it cause despair.
Don’t forget intelligent. Fair AND intelligent would be good. Is that asking too much?
Thanks for the reminder Sister. I was holding my breath and sitting on my fingers reading there, in order to keep myself from posting to clarify his error, LOL. I see I’m on the bash list there now. Shame on me for pointing out a fact. I was thinking, even if they found the person that the glove fit like a glove and his DNA too, I don’t think many would believe OJ was innocent of those murders. No amount of logical facts can change someone’s mind if they want to believe something. I read a statement yesterday saying they want her to be guilty. I want her to be innocent because I don’t want to see this mother wanting to snuff out the life of that beautiful little girl. But I want justice even more so I am willing to look at any fact that may be relevant before making up my mind.
Exactly. I have to admit there are a couple of subjects that I don’t have all the knowledge to fully judge but I doubt most others do either because it is a specialized field of interest. They just choose to believe what they want to believe because it supports their wish for guilty. But I do know the difference between Kudzu and Air Potato and I know it doesn’t take 4-6 months for some species roots to reach 2-4mm diameter. Without knowing the species, I can’t judge the botanist is incorrect. But I suspect he omitted the species in order to protect or shield his opinion. It seems highly unprofessional to completely leave out the species he is referring to. Would they talk about maggots without naming the species? Impossible because each living species has its own natural life cycle.
Q12 – hair from debris taken from left side of trunk liner – exhibits characteristics of decomp – similar to hair from Q15 – caucasian, light/med brown, 9” – dark band at root
Forensic evidence taken from released case files – Q12 – hair from trunk
showing dark band at root – i.e. death band
Are you quoting? If so which page are you on, please? Characteristics of decomp can included light or dark banding but it is not as common as the other post mortem changes, with a short PMI. You might like to read ESTIMATING THE POSTMORTEM INTERVAL IN FORENSIC CASES THROUGH THE ANALYSIS OF POSTMORTEM DETERIORATION OF HUMAN HEAD HAIR By Jamie Hughes Collier B.S., Northwestern State University, 2001
“Postmortem banding, which may appear proximal or distal, is infrequently seen, possibly because it occurs only in late anagen/early catagen, or late catagen stage hair roots. Much more common are the hard keratin points and brush-like ends, both of which most likely result from complete decomposition of the soft anagen hair root/stem elements that are just below the hard (permanent) keratinous shaft. The hard keratin point form is usually associated with advanced moist scalp decomposition, and the brush-like form is usually associated with advanced dry scalp decomposition. One scalp can have both moist and dry areas. Although postmortem hair proximal end morphologic changes appear to be relatively specific for the decomposition process, the timing of their appearance does not appear to be helpful in determining postmortem interval.”
Again, I will say, unless you have a page number to fit what you are saying above, which I have not seen, they lab tech did NOT specify what sign of decomp was there.
regarding Cindy and the smell of decomposition this is from a registered nurse:
I am a nurse that works in a hospital and have worked in nursing homes and while I have never been near a body that is decomposing afetr death I have smelled the odor from many wounds, bedsores and such.
A gangrenous foot, an infected bedsore are all forms of decomposition. Oxygen and blood are no longer reaching the area and the tissue is dead. I t has a very distinct odor and it is one you will never forget.
I can only imagine the smell of decomposition after death has to be even more putrid because it is all over the body not just localized to one area.
So I for one have to believe When Cindy said it smeled like a dead body she had a point of reference for that comment end
Even though Cindy recently worked as a case manager for Gentiva, she was an experienced
RN, and she did know the smell of decomp. If you check you can find references
on the net of her stating “I am a nurse of decompositon”
that is a direct statement she made, but I still have to find the exact reference to when,
I think it was in an email she wrote that was published.
I also have some questions about Cindy stating she smelled decomp. I have been an Emergency Dept RN for 25 years and was an medic in the military and an EMT in the private sector. I have been to many scenes of decomp…. hangings, natural deaths of lone elderly people, drownings (not found right away) etc. The smell of decomp is such that once you smell it, you will never forget it and you will never mistake it for anything else (pizza). Both George and Cindy stated they smell of decomp and I am not sure how the defense is going to get past that. And btw, I don’t believe that anyone other than Casey put the body there, and IMO, there WAS a body there.
Artgirl, I assume you weren’t quoting a doc I haven’t seen, stating that there was a “death band”, since you didn’t answer that. I too have smelled decomposition but the last time was about 10 years ago and it was only limbs and feet rotting, not a whole body. I had several ongoing experiences so had ample time to take in the odor. I have tried, each time I read these statemments, to recall the smell but can’t for the life of me, experience that odor again through my memory. Funny, I can remember the smell of a dead mouse, Yuck. I assume that if I came into contact again, I would have my memory refreshed though. But, I don’t think it is true that no one would ever forget that smell.
The statement Cindy made that you are referring to, I believe was an interview, not an email. I am recalling that statement because I listened twice to get clear on what she was saying. She didn’t say it exactly the way it looks like, in print. She said something like I’m familiar with the smell, paused, then said, “I’m a nurse”, paused again then said, “of decomposition”. So she was saying that she is familiar with the smell because she is a nurse.
Now, the problem I have with the whole thing, is 3 people, minimum, that smelled that car. The most important, I think, is the guy at the tow yard. He clearly stated he recently had dealt with a suicide that happened in a car he towed so was most likely the one that had the biggest and most recent experience with decompositon. He towed it and didn’t notice anything bad enough to call the police. He and probably others that worked there had repeated access to it and still, nothing. He stands there with George, knowing how upset he is, what he might be afraid of, knowing his daughter and granddaughter might be missing or worse, having abandoned the car. I can imagine what was going through his mind, finding out the car was abandoned that way. I can also imagine his relief when they open the trunk and the tow guy said, OH, here’s the source of your smell. Now, the man that had the most recent experience with death not only tells George the garbage is the source of the smell, he must have believed it because he never calls the police. I don’t even believe he thought differently after he found out Caylee was missing.
Next, I have a problem with George being a former cop and not calling the police if he thought it was human death he smelled, or at the very least doing redial repeatedly until he got a hold of Casey, right that minute. Instead, he goes home, gets ready for work and leaves. Is he so dedicated to his job that he wouldn’t act on his gut instincts?
Then there is Cindy who opens the car to air out, sprays some Febreeze after taking some things out, then goes back to work without calling the police or even calling Lee for help to find Casey. She should have been on the phone dialing repeatedly until Casey answered if she thought that was human death she smelled in the car. Instead, she goes to work, and calls Amy later when she gets home. If she was panicked, I’m sure Amy could have given her directions to Tony’s. But instead, Cindy makes the long drive to the mall, picks her up and has her guide her to Casey, probably taking at least an hour extra by the time she takes Amy home. She makes a call, no one comes, makes another call….it takes what, 2 hours before anyone comes? First she calls it a theft even though Casey had always driven the car since her arrangement with Lee. We know the car was in Cindy’s name but she could never get her for grand theft auto and Cindy knew that. But that didn’t get them there very fast either. Then she finds out Casey doesn’t even know where Caylee is. Now she panics! She will say what ever it takes to get them there. Yes, it smelled like something died, I’m sure. There were maggots in the trash to prove there was decomposition. Rotting in the trunk, bad smell, missing grand daughter…OK it smells like there’s been a dead body in the damn car! Maybe that will finally get the cops there to do something to make things ok again. Who knows, she may have, in her panic, even asked ehrself, could that be the smell of human decomp? Of course, it was and it was intermingled with trash and gasoline residue or what ever else had been in that trunk, it wouldn’t smell the same as any human rotting flesh she had smelled before. It would be a combination of all the smells present. Gases also combine to create more compounds.
Anyway, my point is, if any of those 3 actually firmly believed they smelled human decomposition, none of them would have went about their normal routine. At least one would have done something about it. You might believe Cindy and George might cover for her from the beginning but not the tow guy.
To me it’s not a matter of if there was a body in the trunk, it’s when it was put there. It’s who put it there. As so many people have attested to, anyone who’s ever come in contact with human decomposition, never forgets it.
That being said, I’ve always wondered why George doesn’t call LE from the tow yard. Why does Cindy go to work? This does NOT make any sense.
The question now is was Cindy’s statement to the 911 operator, “smells like a dead body” is an excited utterance. Thinking back, it wasn’t Cindy who picked up the car, it was George. George told her the car smelled like human decomp. She has this in her mind and this is why Cindy will stop at nothing to find Caylee. She doesn’t have first hand knowledge, just George told her. Cindy’s on the phone w/911 for the 3rd time. In the prior 2 phone calls Cindy doesn’t mention the car. She’s calling to say her daughter stole her car, stole her money, etc, but she’s not getting a quick enough response. I’m in agreement, she’s trying to get Casey to let her see Caylee, talk to Caylee. That’s her whole objective of calling in authorities in the first place. It’s not until Casey tells her she hasn’t seen Caylee in 31 days, then it all jives, then she’s thinking about how the car smells. Now it’s an emergency. Yes, I think the 911 call will be allowed, but I don’t think it will hurt Casey’s chances of getting an aquittal.
I think the finding of Caylee’s body is the most compelling instrument that the defense has. There’s Roy Kronk who’s actually bragging to his friends, I bet I know where that little girl is. She’s here in these woods. Whether he admits it or not he’s sees dollar signs. The media will pay big bucks to whoever finds her. He tells LE in his interview, he’ll try to keep low but he’s got to eat. That says alot about him and many of the other players who have involved themselves in this case. Officer Richard Cain is stupid for not taking him seriously and is fired because of it. Listening to his testimony, he’s shaking in his boots. Keith Williams gets a trespassing charge for trying to do the right thing. I need to know, was Sgt. John Allen doing his job?
Listening to Kronk’s testimony, it’s obvious that he really doesn’t care. How could he when he states he’s positive he was looking at a “white bobbing” coming from the bags. He knew it was a skull. Why doesn’t he call the “tip line” after 3 failed attempts? Is he out shopping for a buyer? For 3 months he does nothing with what he “knows”. Who knows how many times he was out there. I have a problem with this and so will the prosecution.
Bring in the botanist, bring in the forensic experts all paid for by the taxpayers of FL.
If by chance Casey beats a murder one rap, it’s not her fault. There’s no physical evidence, just a long far-fetched story about a pretty young mother who got tired of raising her child and killed her by duct tape so she could have “bella vita”. What does “bella vita” mean to Casey? More speculation.
Not one hair of Casey’s head is found in all of the belongings found at the burial site. Yet a few hairs are found that could possibly belong to a lab technician or maybe the perp himself/herself. Also a finding of unknown DNA? But not one fingerprint, no DNA, nada that belongs to the accused. This in itself says Casey walks. I’m calling the “all in” on the State of FL.
Don’t forget though, before Cindy went back to work she had her head in that trunk removing the blue crate or what ever was in there along with shoes, slacks, momma doll. She went to work with that smell permeating her pours. That’s why I don’t think she seriously thought it was decomp. She would have panicked and called the police without returning to work and going through all that.
Zub,
You say that you think no one remembers the smell of decomp? Respectfully, you are wrong. Ask any woman who has given birth (naturally) and she will tell you of the excruciating pain, but will be unable to articulate it. Same with decomp, you know it was different, intense and bad. You can’t explain it, but you never forget it. And you recognize it immediately if you come across it again.
I forgot about Cindy cleaning out the trunk. This is true. It still doesn’t explain why she didn’t report this to LE then, unless she was questioning herself as you mentioned. She wasn’t sure or didn’t want to believe it. By her going back to work could mean she wasn’t sure or in denial. In either case, how does anyone know if Casey locked her car doors at all times? And of course, we still haven’t seen the maggot forensics yet. I believe that will be the deciding factor as to if it was human matter or not. I wonder why this hasn’t been released yet in the documents?
EDRN,
Now knowing your medical background and I believe you. Everyone who’s ever had contact with decomp never forgets it, so I’ll ask you this. Why didn’t she call 911 immediately? Do you think she was in denial?
I do. I think that Cindy and George just thought if they kept quiet, went about their daily business, then this would all go away. I think they both recognized the smell, told themselves this can’t be happening and went back to work. Later when they were with the car again, they realized it wasn’t a bad dream and started to cover for Casey, as they always had in the past.
Erden, I did not say I think everyone forgets it. I said I couldn’t clearly recall the smell. I have spent quite a bit of time in the presence of gangrene, some covering quite a large area and I cannot recall the smell clearly in my mind. Perhaps it is because was quite a while ago but I can still recall a specific smell on my mother many, many years ago and I can tell the difference between Lavender grown in France and that grown in Oregon.
Tell me this. If you were in a small space with your eyes closed, that contained kitchen garbage that had been in extreme heat for over 2 weeks, gasoline, laundry supplies and other various chemicals, with a trace of human decomp thrown in, would you be able to separate the odors and identify the human decomp without a doubt? I suspect that the olfactory would be confused as to what exactly was being smelled but it would surely smell like something dead. Remember too, there was some pork and milk products in the trash. Pigs are nearly identical to humans when they decompose. The one human marker in the list of gases has also been manufactured and sold near the Anthony home in the past. I’ve written somewhere about what I found about Carbon Tetrachloride during my research. When I originally was researching I even found that it was showing up in either the air or water in that area. I’d have to track that information down again though.
It was quite a bit after the car had been towed that George was recorded saying he knew the smell of human decomp and he wouldn’t forget it. So I don’t think he was trying to cover anything. He was also a key witness at her arraignment hearing which resulted in the murder 1 charge. With covers like that who needs enemies.
You 2 are total losers. Get a life beside blogging, you obviously don’t have jobs.
East….was that diredted at me? You are right, i don’t kave a job. I put in my 20 years and retired. And I do have a life, a very full one at that.
Zub, I don’t know why they do what they do. They boggle my mind. I totally respect your opinions and research and you have provided me with lots of food for thought. Thank you for that.
That is hilarious. All my comments that I made yesterday are gone. HA HA HA HA HA!!!!!
OOOps! IGNORE. Am on glue!
Bees Knees,
Why would you say that? I just counted 7 of your comments. They’re here. Please check before you accuse.
TIA
JB
I don’t know why people want to accuse me of something I haven’t done. I guess she just didn’t see her comments because of the reply boxes. They confuse me too. I’m thinking about changing the comment format.
I’d hate to see rumors started because of it. Here we go..
My comments are to Zuben dorf loser.
I would put my vote for yes on changing the format. I really like the discussion but it’s a bit hard to follow in the current format. You could almost have an entire forum with the different subjects that could be discussed. I don’t know how much trouble that would be though. Your blog, you decide. You’re the boss!
Hi Eastwood,
Are you addressing me? I’m a dorf loser? Ok, have a nice day 😀
Ok Sunshine,
😀 I fixed it. It’s easier for me too. Thanks for your vote.
I’ll make this very simple for all. The INNOCENT seek and demand the TRUTH. What has Casey Anthony done to seek and demand the TRUTH? Absolutely NOTHING. Did she try to help Law Enforcement find her daughter? HELL NO! She did just the opposite. The GUILTY stay silent, the GUILTY take the 5th, the attorneys for the GUILTY fabricate complete untruths to cast a “reasonable doubt” that their poor client is not responsible in the name of doing their job and in this case for FAME and FORTUNE. I seriously have to question if Zuben has not been wronged by the legal system or law enforcement with all their posts and its unfortunate if that’s the case or I wonder if Zuben is a primary contributor to Casey’s jail fund in some kind of fanatical obsession with her. Please, any sane reasonable human being cannot possibly believe Casey Anthony is not solely responsible for Caylee’s death, and….I state, whether it be murder or an accident that escalated out of control followed by a frenetic attempt to cover up the incident. I have believed all along she should come clean and tell the truth for closure on this case and for the family. Unfortunately, it seems she is well in control of her attorneys and is committed to “bet the house” that she gets aquitted and reaps the rewards of book and movie deals versus being locked away the remainder of her life in general pop (my preference) Mason looked very defeated in court this week and I believe he knows she is “not innocent” and I am of the opinion (with BA in Psychology) her Defense team is growing weary of this case and her. Think about it JB, 31 days not reporting Caylee missing, all the lies, etc., etc….What if this were your grandchild that you adored? You wouldn’t know who her “nanny” was living in the same damn city? You wouldn’t know your daughter (who you loved) did not have a job and she lived in your house? I’m not calling you out JB, just ponder it. No remorse, does not go out (the time she is free) and help look for Caylee, what kind of human being does this? One that is RESPONSIBLE for their disapearance and is taking all measures to conceal it. This is why I am so disgusted with this entire circus. Justice must be served and not behind the guiles of attorneys who fabricate tales to liberate clients in the name of their rights. Zuben, you have serious issues and I feel sorry for you. I’m outta here. Justice for Caylee!
BRT
Eastwood, this is the last time I will be acknowledging you, since you are bent on being rude and unreasonable. Obviously I needed to get to bed before you did and whether or not I have a job is none of your business. Fortunately for me, I am self employed so I can take a break when I choose to, within reason, to attempt to be a voice of reason when so many are willing to convict without a fair trial and before all the facts are in. You choose to read much more into my writing than is there and it is interesting that what I say makes you so angry. No, I have not personally been wronged by the legal system but I have seen many indisputable proofs that others have so I don’t put any LE or those in the Judicial system on a pedestal. Have a great day, if you can.
JB, I am really sorry. I don’t know why they didn’t show up. I also couldn’t see any from Celeste or a couple others. I just thought it was hilarious. I thought, “Well, that’s one way to shape a blog!” As soon as I logged out I realized how ridiculous it was and when I went back for a second look they were of course all there. So. I don’t know why but it has reminded me not to jump to quick conclusions.
No problem Bees. I understand, I lost my comments too. LOL It was the reply boxes. Thanks for responding.
Everybody is a little touchy, happens to the best of us.
Zuben, I was reading your e-mail information and trying to understand it. I really appreciate you taking the time to decipher it. JB, do you think it would be possible to start a thread just for the computer aspects of this case? It would be easier to follow if it was all in one place.
Eastwood, paragraphs are your friend. 🙂
“Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned.”
I’m sorry Sunshine. I C&P’ed that info straight from my collection of notes without spending much time proof reading or trying to organize it. You know how it is when you’re googling and finding things here and there. I often start out after one piece of information and end up somewhere else entirely because of what you find along the way. I’ve been so busy and spend a few minutes or an hour here and there collecting these things. But if JB does start a separate thread perhaps I can spend some time organizing it. Hopefully not too soon though because I’m in the middle of some things.
JB & all..I have been out of the loop for a bit. I was in a car accident. Now investigating my own case LOL.
See you have some newbes..Some anti Casey..Wow..there are so many forums that they can belong to and feel at home. Just wondering why they would be reading here “for some time”Maybe fence sitters waiting for enough evidence to be proven to them that there could be something more to the case?
Anyway, the new posts, research is very interesting with the scams and virus.The juliett Lewis, franck etc.
I read a post by you wondering about Patrick B. Are you talking about Casey’s jail house visitor?
I also found some new things as well prior to accident..that I never got posted. I will be trying to catch up on all. It distracts me from my case!
Sorry, I have read more and see that you are talking jail house visitor. Also there was a Frank B but he ended up not showing. I was talking about Patrick in one of my last posts, as of interest. He talks about Mike in the visit. http://www.wftv.com/download/2008/0725/16990265.pdf
http://www.wftv.com/video/18206761/index.html This is video of visit
When Casey is talking Kristin in her call home after first being
arrested, and wanting Tony’s phone number. She says I really want to talk to MIKE.
“So, if I go and get you Tony’s number, are you going to finish talking to me?” Kristina said.
“I will call you tomorrow,” Casey Anthony said. “I want to talk to him really quick. I wanted to actually try and call Mike. I haven’t slept in four days. I have not slept in four days.
Transcript link
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/16993169/detail.html
Another person who Casey was really trying to avoid was Anthony R. You hear people
blogging about Casey calling Casey a little snothead in txt him. But that was for his
reaction. She knew he didnt want her around.
I was single parent..I have read into these txts between them. She was not for real with
this guy. She was making excuses not to be with him. If you read them and watch the
dates and days, weeks, go by You see she is REALLY just avoiding him.
And he is totally obnoxious.
He is the officer fired for lieing about knowing Casey. http://www.docstoc.com/docs/1604287/text-between-casey-and-tony-rusciano
So it is almost endless some of the people Casey hung out with, and some whom she
did’nt that have suspicions about them. I have researched so many of them. Some have
more than others.
Also , in one of my last posts..I was talking about Hernan G I think having Anthony R as a
friend on my space or facebook have to look. And the trail of friends went from one to another to end up at Fusion.
Also Clint H. big event planner..also linked to another in Orlando have to go back and get info.
Long last week Sorry. I will regroup and back with links.
I found your site via Google. Earlier on Bills site you stated:
theJBmission said, on June 28, 2010 at 10:14 am
sry,
hit the submit button too soon..
It’s all speculation. I think the defense has an ace in the hole and that’s why there will be no plea deals. It will be revealed at trial breaking down the state’s theory to rubbish.
And I responded with:
Morgan said, on June 28, 2010 at 10:27 am
JB,
What do you think the theory is?
Why do you think they would let their ‘innocent’ client stay in jail?
TIA
I am interested in your response and reason behind it.
Again TIA
Hello Moran,
You’re asking two questions? Why do you think they would let their “innocent” client stay in jail?? Well, Moran it happens all the time. It’s the way our judicial system works. Feel free to research my article “Beware of the Dogs”. There is a sad story about a wrongly convicted man named Bill Dillon, who spent 27 years in a Florida prison for a heinous murder he did not commit. Note how long it took for the judge to release Bill Dillon even after the Florida Innocence project proved the DNA didn’t match.
As you know, Casey has been charged with murder one and it’s the prosecution’s job to prove her guilt. Her attorney’s do not have to prove her innocence.
As for “the ace in the hole” There’s evidence that will prove Casey could not have placed Caylee on Suburban Drive. Along with the unknown DNA found on the duct tape.
My theory? I have a couple theories squattered over my blog. Take your pick, just don’t try to convince me Casey killed her daughter because she wanted to party w/friends.
She’s innocent of that.
Snoop said:
Also , in one of my last posts..I was talking about Hernan G I think having Anthony R as a
friend on my space or facebook have to look. And the trail of friends went from one to another to end up at Fusion.
Also Clint H. big event planner..also linked to another in Orlando have to go back and get info.
Long last week Sorry. I will regroup and back with links.
—————————————————
Hi Snoop,
I don’t know how I missed your post. Yes, Anthony R. is a dirty little creature, and I agree KC was trying hard to rid herself of him, I could tell but maybe with him being LE, she thought she might need his friendship one day. LOL, everyone could use a cop friend. KC also told Anthony R that “Caylee came first”.
I wasn’t aware that Hernan G knew Anthony R?? hmm..interesting. And yes, Clint H, the real event planner?
thank you Snoop.
Hi All. Trying to catch up, hope I don’t miss anything. Snoop, thanks for the link to refresh our memory on that only non family visit. Do you suppose the M Walker Patrick mentions is the football player for the Jacksonville Jaguars? Orlando is his home town and according to wiki, he dealt with personal, family and friend’s tragedies in 2008. If this is the right MW, I think he’s a good guy.
JB-sorry I misspelled my own name – its Morgan.
Why I believe she is in jail is a moot point. My question about being innocent and being in jail is regarding her lawyers saying they have evidence stating she could not be the one who placed her daughters body in the swampy water. Now if indeed her lawyers have the evidence that states this – why is she sitting in jail? Why would they not present it and be done? If I was Casey and knew the evidence was there, I would be screaming ‘GET ME OUT’…Makes no sense.
That being said, I disagree with your statement “Her attorney’s do not have to prove her innocence.” If they have the proof – use it.
I understand you have theories, I am just looking for evidence that backs them. I responded to your theory of maggots on Bills site….sorry I am just not seeing it, but time will tell.
Thanks for responding.
Morgan
Morgan, I believe once a person is charged it is up to the prosecution to agree to accepting what they have, then they withdraw the charges. Otherwise the trial has to play out. When the statement was made about evidence I understood them to mean the prosecutions evidence shows Caylee wasn’t there in June or July. Now it looks like they have witnesses that will say they were in that spot and she wasn’t there. That evidence will have to go through depositions by the prosecution and/or cross examination on the witness stand. They aren’t going to want to admit they are wrong. Not only will they have mud on their face for the way this case was handled, they will be open to a lawsuit for wrongful arrest, I think. Correct me if I’m wrong. Now, if the defense had a witness to the murder or confession from someone, I don’t think they would be able to avoid dealing with it before trial. But if it is their own evidence that proves the defense’s case, that is a different matter. A jury will have to make the judgment. Also, it is true, under the law the defendant doesn’t have the burden of proof. They could remain silent and gamble that the prosecution can’t convince the jury and that cross examination will create doubt. It is in their best interest to build a case to support her innocence though.
Zuben – Her lawyer Todd M stated in court they had the evidence. if they have that. IMO, the State has a case and it just boggles my mind that the defense would allow their client to sit in jail if they had proof.
The witnesses who stated they searched the area have withdrawn their original statement. The defense now says – nobody could have searched there as it was underwater.
Per the evidence, “Roots were growing in her small bones for approximately four months. It’s important to note that the bones would first need to be disarticulated, completely skeletonized, and then stabilized for roots to adhere to and grow into the bones. A fall leaf layer covered many of the scattered bones indicating that the bones were dispersed before the fall season of 2008. The overall conclusion by the specialists is that the pattern of skeletal dispersal is consistent with the body of Caylee Anthony being dumped into the woods at the scene located on Suburban Drive during the early stages of decay, and before significant disarticulation occurred.” http://www.jurorthirteen.com/GeneralCategories/UpcomingTrials/CaseyAnthonyTrial/tabid/1273/Default.aspx
As I said before – time will tell.
Casey IS GUILTY!
and Mr. Todd Macaluso stated…..
“and, your honor, WE have evidence that WE’VE DISCOVERED OURSELVES, that WILL PROVE someone else other than Ms. Anthony did this”.
so zuben….your theory is not correct. they have discovered evidence themselves. where is it? free casey. show that evidence! free casey….she’s been incarcerated long enough.
one more thing….Dominick Casey deposition has not been released yet. THAT will be the KEY to all these non-factual theorys.
Venice, I see I ruffled your feathers again so I will apologize and answer you first. I just listened again to Macaluso at the hearing held 08/01/2009, which I believe is the hearing you refer too. http://www.wftv.com/video/20582650/index.html the part you are referring to is at about the 3:50 mark. He does use the words, “that we’ve discovered”. But if you listen more closely you will see that the end of the sentence includes “…and that’s been set forth in our brief…” He is referring to the Appendices in Support of Defendant’s Motion for Certification of Timothy Miller as a Material Witness… If you will read this document you will see that all points, A-L, except for perhaps the Google map and one blog entry by David Lohr I don’t remember seeing released, are all items released to them by the prosecution through the discovery process. Oh, and notice the address on the map is 8750 suburban Dr, not the 8900 block. I just typed that in to Google Map and it comes out right there. But I suspect the address would be 8964.
Morgan, see my response above. Again, if it is the state’s own evidence that becomes the defense’s evidence, then they would have a near impossible job of convincing their own case proves the defendant is innocent. They are approaching this from the angle that the one they accuse is guilty and it will take more than that to convince them. The Grid map shown as appendix L came from the Orange County Sheriff’s office and shows that area was searched by them. Now, if there is anything that would convince the state to drop their insistence that Caylee was there June through September, I would think this would be it. Have they backed off or even offered her a deal? She wouldn’t take it anyway but, do you see what I’m getting at? At the very least they should be looking for an accomplice to match the dna to.
I have addressed your points about the roots. The botanist didn’t even name the species and there are at least 2-3 species there that I’m sure would grow to that size in much less than 4 months. The leaves don’t begin to fall where I live until October. Orlando doesn’t usually get frost until the 1st week of December so their leaves don’t fall as early either. Light and temperature both play a part in defoliation of deciduous trees.
As for JJ, he isn’t the only one but if you’ve read his email to the sheriff, his notes and maps, you will see that he is going to have a very hard time explaining his about face under cross examination. What he said and wrote would be better defined as an excited utterance than Cindy’s 911 call, in my opinion. But regardless of the legal description, he obviously changed his mind after he realized that what he witnesses and said would help the defense, and not until then.
ruffled my feathers?? Far from it. Continue on Zuben to attempt to change destiny.
Hi JB…..
I just wanted to say I enjoyed reading your BIO of latter days! I, too, am a child of the 60’s and am a TRUE Hippie at heart who was born and raised in Venice Beach, CA. I remember the days when Manson and Jim Morrison used to stroll our Boardwalk. Your mother sounded like a wonderful person!! I wish I was a-little more liberal, but I accredit that to my father. Anyways, it was excellent reading!
Zueben, you see it your way and I see it another. What is going to count is how the jury sees it. I think the state has been very diligent in their work. So far everything points to her and only her. Personally I think she is guilty and only her. But I have been know to be wrong. Will be interesting when more FBI evidence is released.
I am in Orlando, FL. Our fall season temps vary and after our hot summers, I wish we got frost as early as Dec. Our leaves turn and can fall as early as Oct / November.
Zuben,
You’ve presented a valid argument. Thank you. I’m leaning towards a not guilty because of my gut feelings and lack of physical evidence. It’s really that simple. I’m looking forward to the trial. It’ll be a true learning experience for most of us.
Thank you Venice,
So you were a westcoast hippy, I was hanging out in the Quarter going to concerts at the Warehouse..LOL
Didn’t know any Charlie Manson’s but there were a few seedy characters holding up Peace signs. Thanks for sharing.
Hi JB,
I have heard so many good things about the Quarter. Remember the Wonderland murders involving John Holmes? I used to work for Eddie Nash at his nightclub, the Starwood. If there was a time machine, I would be gone. Dennis Wilson, one of the Beach Boys, died in front of my house. He was drinking on the jetty, and slipped and received a fatal blow to the head. God, I remember that vividly:( Well, peace and have a great 4th of July.
Thanks Morgan. I figured as much. So you see, the leaves had only recently fallen and prove nothing other than she was there before that, long enough to complete decomposition and have plants settle in there. I have to reserve judgment on the calculation of time because the botanist was so vague and the entomology proves nothing to me other than she was there long enough for decomposition to complete, settle and supply nutrients for plant growth to take place. Since decomposition could easily have been completed in 2 weeks, about the same amount of time it takes for many species of flys to complete their life cycle, that doesn’t prove much either. In fact, it took so long for Haskell to get the bag of trash, at least 6-7 generations of coffin fly would have grown, assuming that the trash was put in the trunk the end of June before being towed. Those little critters just love trash, sewers and dumpsters. They can grow in as little as 2 weeks so by the time the car was impounded by LE, the first generation would have hatched. They didn’t bother to bring Haskell in until the end of August and he took another 6 weeks to collect adults, since the one collected in the August 28 batch was missing its belly. Another thing I find curious about his report is the way he bases everthing on the assumption that Caylee was in the trunk on June 16. That sure isn’t the basis for science. They are suppose to look at the evidence objectively, not assume something then build on that. He even says there was decomp fluid in the trunk carpet but we’ve yet to see any report that shows this. Or did I miss a very important piece of discovery/evidence?
Thanks, JB
Zubenelscdhemali : exactly!
sorry I tried to spell your name right lol.
Zueben
Without knowing exactly when Caylee died, it would certainly be a guess as to when they think Caylee died. But if she was last seen by Cindy or George on the 14th or 15th, I can live with the 16th or the 17th being her official last day. Now I read this as if the plant roots show they have been attached her bones for approximately 4 months and the leaves fell in Oct – that would put the body there in June, would it not? And that’s not taking into account all the freaking rain we had. Would that slow down or speed up decomposition? I think a lot of science is based on reasonable and logical assumptions.
Based on forensic analyses of Casey’s car trunk and her daughter’s remains, specifically, by plotting Orlando temperature relative to decompositional fluid–where high temperatures accelerated body purge of fluids–so-called “coffin flies,” and the absence from the trunk of adipocere, or grease associated with a body’s post-bloat stage suggest the body was removed from the trunk during the period of June 19-22.
The time-line: June 15–the last time Caylee was seen by grandparents; June 17-22: evidence found of temperature-accelerated body purge fluids in the Pontiac Sunbird trunk; June 19-22: absent post-bloat grease, Caylee’s body apparently was removed from the car trunk; June 27: Casey abandoned her car.
Regarding the fluid. No I have not seen a report on it yet. All I have read is about the stain. I will look up more later when I can to see if a report is out.
Will be very interesting when all reports are out.
Have enjoyed this thank you
Thanks Morgan,
I appreciate your logic and use of some scientific values, coffin flies, wax and so forth, but June 16th is actually the last day George claims he saw Caylee. The 17th was the day of flurry of calls. So if you’re agreeing with 2.6 days of decomp in the car, and that would mean the remains should be on Suburban on no later than June 20th.
It seems simple but none of this is not an exact science. A week could make a difference and if the timeline doesn’t fit, there’s another problem. In any case, thank you for the valuable information.
Wow, sounds like you’ve led an interesting life. Awesome!! The Quarter is still great place to visit. It’s always open 24/7 You knew Dennis Wilson? It was sad how he died.
Have a good 4th too Venice.
Good job Ina. You just hit the cd together with one finger, LOL. Just call me Zub or Zuben. I’d suggest Z but after I’d signed that way a couple of times I started seeing someone using that so I quit.
Morgan, you makd some good points but, as JB pointed out the state’s experts contradict each other. The air test that is likely not going to get through the court room door says 2.6 days decomp in the trunk. The entomologist, instead of working backwards from the date he looked at the trunk evidence, as he did with the bugs from the remains site, worked forward using an assumed date and didn’t even address how many generations there were. He uses dates for ADD ending July 31 when he was looking at bugs that weren’t preserved until August 28 and others that continued to grow and mature for much longer. What kind of science is that? He talks about carrion being removed from the car by the time it was towed but he has no way of knowing that is the case at all. He acts as if coffin flies don’t infest food garbage and there had to be carrion, a body in the trunk. That is just not true.
The adipocere hasn’t yet been identified as human. It should have been quite simply to determine that but they are silent on that simple necessary fact. Yes, decomp is slowed in water somewhat and moisture is necessary for the formation of adipocere.
The rate of decomposition isn’t if the utmost importance here because animals helped her along. But, assuming it took a month instead of the 2 weeks they suggested, lets also assume that the roots may have been of a species that could grow to 2-4mm within 2 months. Subtract 3 months from December 12, you have September 12, not June 16.
Now, I just figured out where my fascination with the Air Potato comes from. Remember I pointed out that MD is incorrectly calling this heat shaped leaved plant Kudzo? Well, I kept thinking that plant is so familiar to me and suddenly realized I am growing a close relative, also called air potato but more commonly called Cinnamon vine. It grows to about half the height but is also quite invasive and persistent. I can guarantee you, even in my cold climate and short season, this half size version of air potato easily grows roots that large in just a couple of months time or less. In fact, I just pulled up a couple of young seedlings, the smallest only being a couple weeks old. The primary root of the largest is 8mm with the secondary fibrous roots about 2mm. The smallest barely has the central root protruding from the bulbil but is nearly the same thickness, as well as the secondary roots. Since Air potato is the most abundant ground vegetation in that woods this is most likely the plant that was growing through the bag and adhering to the bones.
Morgan, would you consider venturing out to pull a couple of young seedlings and measure their roots. If you can determine when it germinated, you can see for yourself how long it takes to reach 2-4mm thickness. The youngest seedlings will have only the first set of leaves. Mine have been sprouting up for about 4-6 weeks and are still popping up so there are varying ages.
Sure did. He was friends with my oldest brother, and my mother (RIP) used to cook for him all the time. They were like everybodys family who grew up in Venice/Marina Del Rey, CA. Everybodys surfed together. I have soooooooo many stories;)
Venice,
I guess one day after this trial we can share stories over a Hurricane @ Pat O’Briens. I’ve got a few stories too of my “mis-spent” youth. Although mis-spent, I wouldn’t change a thing. Good times and lots of life lessons.
It’s a date. I am so burned out with this Casey chick! Here’s to the year 1975, a draft beer, and chilling to John Lennon. Later!
Yes, it took a few days for my last posts? Don’t know what happen.
Link of interest for those not aware, Lyon is off the case.
http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/june/115783/One-of-Casey%E2%80%99s-lawyers-quits-case
Hi Snoop,
Thank you for the link. It’s certainly a loss for the defense but I still think Baez and Mason can handle the case. She’ll still be around for consult which is good.
Snoop,
I don’t know what happened those couple of days. When I finally logged on, I was surprised to see 4 of your comments stuck in moderation.
I’m glad you came back so I could explain. Sorry snoop.
I have been so busy, but breaking news again. Emergency court hearing Fri.(tomorow)
Defense wants Perry to inspect evidence being held at OCSO. They want Judge to assign
a” special master” someone impartial to oversee their experts. They do not want the
state or law enforcement present.
Link here is the most unbiased station, however I will give you the Most biased station
as well. LOL
http://www.cfnews13.com/article/news/2010/july/116464/Emergency-hearing-scheduled-in-Case-Against-Casey
http://www.wftv.com/news/24114206/detail.html
No prob Jb about lost posts…
Thanks for the update Snoop,
I used this for my newest post. Hope to see you later today. This should be interesting.
I feel so badly for Miss Anthony and her entire family. I do feel badly for little Caylee, but that loving family would never harm her. It was not an accident that she died—she was murdered—but her mommy did not do it. You can tell by the confidence she shows in the courtroom that Casey is innocent of any wrongdoing. Yes perhaps she told a lie to the police, but she was in fear for her daughter’s life—just like Cindy said on tv. The people that had Caylee had been her babysitter(s) so Casey could enjoy life a little. Girls need to have a boyfriend and go out on the town, but Cindy wouldn’t allow Casey to do that, so it forced her to lie about it. We’ve all told lies, and I doubt anyone posting here is completely free from telling a lie at some point in their life.
The nanny was a psycho and she was jealous of Casey. Casey’s beautiful smile, her perfect body, her charming and outgoing personality were things that made the nanny jealous. The nanny probably was jealous that Casey was dating Jeff (nanny’s old boyfriend) and maybe she wanted him back. By kidnapping Caylee and murdering her to look like Casey did it, nanny now has Jeff back. Where are Jeff and Nanny? Well they are obviously hiding from the police!
Hello ALL, I Just read the transcript of Brett Reilly of texas search released on 12/ten /zero nine. then i looked at evidence photos of the dump site of the NEW CLEAN TRASH BAGS . it is my opinion since all this area had been under swamp water for month and this guy snd his buddy had beenwaiting for the water to subside I asked myself HOW CAPNTHE BAGS STILL HAVE THEIR NEW PLASTIC SHEEN SHINE??????????? let me know how this can be POSSIABLE.?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’m glad I found this site. There is so much media-hyped hysteria about this case, it’s hard to hear voices of sanity. The state has offered nothing to prove that Casey is guilty of first-degree murder. Their case is flawed and filled with “junk science”.
I pray that Casey is allowed to get a fair trial. We cannot forget the fact that she innocent until proven guilty by the state.